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#839566
☕ DaasYochid ☕
Participant

DY are you saying in talmudic times, if someone would sell an ox and on the horn of the ox it would say that this ox is not sold but merely rented . do you think his unspoken term will be acknowledged?

If it was noticed by the “buyer”, yes.

p.s. CAN aderet demand i return the tape ?

No, similar to the way a leasing company cannot demand the car back before the term is up.

also a socher is mechuyav i on ones . am i liable for any damages to pay cash?

You would be, except that they specifically exempt you. (See below.)

p.p.s dy are you bakant with the sugya of “devorim shebilev”?

There are several reasons that “einom d’vorim” doesn’t apply here.

1) It’s not b’lev, as I explained earlier, and I don’t think you responded.

2) That sugya is dealing with retracting the sale; this case is dealing with a different transaction structure than normal i.e. rental vs. sale.

3)In that case, the possibility of applying a change has its upside and downside i.e. regaining property vs. loss of money. In this case, keeping the status quo (as originaly printed on the jacket) is completely to the benefit of Aderet.

4) The reason we assume that “einom d’vorim” is because the seller may have changed his mind for the sake of the money. The The R’ma (207 4) brings a “yesh omrim” (I don’t know who, if anyone, argues) that the rule of “d’vorim sheb’lev einom d’vorim” doesn’t apply to a matana (because there is no money involved – S”ma). In our case, the money remains the same; as was noted several times in this thread, they don’t charge any less for this long term rental than if it were a sale.

You could have argued that even an express stipulation has no bearing by “m’talt’lin” (R”ma 207 3), in which case argument 1) would not be valid, but 2), 3), and 4) would.

I think the question is not whats writen on the cover but whats written on the sales receipt, thats where a rentel agreement should be and there it says “sales receipt”.

Why? I would think that the prevailing agreement would be 1) what is stipulated before, not after the transaction, and 2) What is to the benefit of the one defining the transaction (in this case, Aderet, who prefers a rental.

FYI:

This is the English “nusach” used on many CDs: