OOmis -“You miss the point entirely. NOBODY is entitled to anything. This is not an entitlement and it never was. When did you decide that the government OWES us a living?”
This is a prime example of twisting s/o’s words. “Entitled” -I meant -legally able to acquire, not “Es Koomt Em”!
“I have NO obligation to support anyone with my wallet money or tax dollars, just because he wants to sit and learn for X number of years.”
And even if you did have an obligation, you wouldn’t do it anyway because you don’t believe in this way of life!
“My husband (who also would love to have sat and learned)and I (when I was not busy raising my children) worked very hard to put food on the table and pay our bills. We take pride in paying our own way through life.”
Most people use this excuse. You can use this excuse, but if you want Hashem to give you the Zecus of something called Limud Hatorah -you can do this by supporting people who do sit & learn.
“The people whom you seem to feel are owed a living either by this country or by our kehillah, have grown up with the mindset that it is “coming to them.” Wake up. It is NOT coming to them or to anyone else.”
I know most people who grow up with this minset are not from the Yeshivishe community. Most people who have this mindset are those who were spoiled rotten by their parents. It’s not usually kids of Kollel people -usually comes from people who had lots of money. While if you find people like these in the Kollel community -it’s because their parents were rich and spoiled them. At least they sit and learn and don’t do things like all other spoiled rotten kids in America.
“Who is going to pay the way for THEIR kids when they grow up thinking this lifestyle is the norm? Certainly not their parents, who were being supported by THEIR parents?”
And certainly not by the likes of you, because you don’t even support the parents whom are in Kollel. But your concern for the kids truly touches me!
“Every boy cannot be a rebbie or Rosh Yeshivah. But that is basically what they are being groomed for in the Kollel.”
NEWS FLASH -Most people who are in Kollel aren’t being Groomed for anything. There is such a thing as learning in Kollel just for the sake of learning. It’s called learning Torah Lishma.
Rav A. Kotler zt’l brought this concept to the USA.
“Btw, there very much IS something wrong with taking – unless you are also in some way giving back to the person from whom you take. Takers are users.”
Learning Torah is good for the community -so they are giving back.
“When you take advantage of a program just because it exists, in order to avoid being a responsible adult, that is IMO very wrong.”
Learning in Kollel is not taking advantage of Progams because it exists. It’s using these programs to help them stay in Kollel. Being in Kollel is being a responsible adult.
“It does not build character.”
Learning in Kollel builds more character than working for a living.
“I am not talking about people who simply cannot earn a decent living. Those programs were set in place to help them. To HELP them, not to supplant the need for them to get a job. When we see nisht unzereh taking advantage of these programs, we are critical of them.”
Perhaps people are critical because some take and do nothing constructive with their lives?
“But when Yidden circumvent the rules or play games in order to get Medicaid, food stamps, housing etc. then it suddenly becomes kosher. Except it isn’t kosher. Because when Jews are discovered playing these games, it makes the front page headlines.”
I agree that people shouldn’t steal from the programs which would include lying on your application. Most Frum Jews do not & almost all Kollel guys don’t. So – I’ll repeat – if a Jew, whether in Kollel or not, needs help making ends meet -there is nothing wrong with taking Gov. programs to accomplish this.
If this bothers you so much -get money together and start a Jewish org. that will give these people $ instead of them having to take programs. I’m sure you’ll find a lot of people joining up. Most people whom take these programs do it out of necessity, rather than desire!