ROB: I find it very sad to see someone I shared a number of stimulating and respectful debates on various topics in Halacha spewing such hatred and vitriol against the Torah and those who learn it”
Hello99, perhaps I missed something (I admit I did not read EVERY single post here before replying to yours), but what exactly did ROB say that sounded like he was spewing hatred and vitriol against the Torah and those who learn it? I think he expressed something that many people seem to feel, even if they do not say iot aloud (unless I greatly misunderstood his point, as is quite possible), i.e., that one cannot have it both ways. If the chareidi world (or anyone, for that matter) accepts free funding from the government (whether here or in E”Y), it certainly would seem natural to expect them to give back to that government in some appreciable manner, just as a matter of hakoras hatov. And if the government made their receipt of funding contingent upon giving service of some kind to the country, then perhaps there WOULD be those who would stop accepting the financial help, so as to avoid having to do the service. Quid pro quo.
This is a valid observation, however distasteful it might be. I personally do not want to see chareidim or Kollel men in the army, but to be honest, who exactly do you think DID serve in the Jewish army in the days of Moshe Rabbeinu and our shoftim and neviim? What if THEY would have opted out, citing the desire to learn full time as a get out of the army card? Many people, especially the non-frum Jews in E”Y, feel great resentment of those who have never served. They could not care less that the Yeshivah bochurim unquestionably provide a great spiritual shemira for klal Yisroel. They don’t GET that. All they see is many able-bodied men who do not have to put their physical lives on the line in the same way that is required of THEM. If we are to be intellectually honest, we should be able to understand their frustration, even if we disagree with their objections.
Again, please tell me what did ROB say that so offended you? I clearly missed SOMETHING. I would like to hear what he has to say in response.