ItcheSrulik:
“Whose Torah? The one I got was given on a hilltop in the Sinai and talks a great deal about the importance of Eretz Yisrael.”
Yes, the Torah undoubtedly attaches great significance to Eretz Yisroel; I don’t think anybody here would deny that. However, I think it is equally obvious that the original goal of the Zionist movement was to create a “new Jew”, and replace Torah and Mitzvos with secular nationalism, R”L. I believe this is what Englishman meant when he insinuated that Torah and Zionism are mutually exclusive.
“Regardless of any legitimate and/or illegitimate grievances against the government, the charedi hatred of the Land of Israel and the Jews who live there is uncalled for. I had the dubious pleasure of listening to a drasha this past shabbos where the rabbi could not think of anything better to talk about than how terrible Israel is for farming. Why? Because the parsha says that Israel is good for farming. I’ve heard all of the reasons for non-Zionism and even a couple of nearly-valid excuses for anti-Zionism but nothing that justifies the way some people get so upset — the way they can’t stand to hear a good word about Israel. Where does the rabid hatred come from?”
I have no idea; to say such a thing is is inexcusable and honestly, reminiscent of the meraglim. But please do not think (or suggest) that this is a widely-held attitude in the Chareidi world; far from it.
“Btw, this is going to be my last post for a while since I’m leaving for yeshiva in Israel today.”
Hatzlocha rabah!
dd:
“A Zionist is someone who recognizes that the State came into being and continues to exist through HaShem’s nissim. A Zionist is thankful to HaShem for giving us a State that can rescue Jews from danger, and supports Torah and Jews in so many ways. A Zionist recognizes that the State is imperfect and accepts the responsibility to improve the State.”
No, that’s only a religious Zionist. Ask a secular Zionist if he believes any of the above and he’ll laugh at you.
“thankful to HaShem for giving us a State that can rescue Jews from danger, and supports Torah and Jews in so many ways.”
Supports Torah in so many ways? How, by abducting Sephardi children, chopping their peyos off, and forcibly re-educating them? Or by trying to draft kolle yungerleit into the army? Definitely a rather mixed record, on that score, too.