daniela -“Health – I agree – but the point is, a Rabbi and posek may allow a DNR when it is halachically permissible, but will hardly ever approve a DNR unless the patient has made clear his/her wish and intention not to be resuscitated.”
You seem to have some knowledge, but you are still ignorant.
Don’t get influenced by other posts like the guy benign-something. Many DNR decisions are made without the pt’s wishes known. Most people don’t want to think about these issues with regards to their end of life so they don’t make any decisions in this regard, but they all of a sudden become sick and are in a coma. A lot of these pts. will get DNR’s both medically & Halachically.
“If she wanted to be left alone and die peacefully, I can respect that (also, it’s usually less of a problem halachically, because once we start life-support aggressive measures, by the time doctors realize they are futile, they are already in place and respirators outside Jewish hospitals don’t usually have the 24 hours button);”
I have a few problems with this paragraph. If we decided that the efforts are futile why did we (medical personnel) put the pt. on a respirator? I never heard of this 24 hr. button -what is it?
“but if so, why call emergency services? Why divert essential services who might have been needed elsewhere? Why give grief to the human being who answered the telephone and what did he do to deserve having to stand by impotently while someone was dying, he will keep dreaming and daydreaming this for years, possibly for the rest of his life.”
The last part is a exaggeration. Yes, this I could never understand when I was doing EMS. The family gets a DNR, but then they call us when an emergency happens. Lack of education somewhere.
“The nurse should have held her hand in silence or saying whatever she felt was fitting to the circumstance.”
It was the nurse’s job to call for help -which she did. Maybe she did hold her hand afterwards?
“Regardless of religion or lack thereof, it seems to me it’s totally disrespectful to stay needlessly on the phone while another human being is dying.”
Noone stood needlessly by the phone -the nurse called -she did her job. The dispatcher answered -he/she did their job.
“If it was not what the old lady wanted, then it’s not murder, but it surely is despicable.”
And if she did want to, but had no medical history -then it’s Not despicable acc. to Torah? It surely is!
“I don’t care to divide the responsibility among the nurse, the facility administration, the government, the voters – it’s despicable. May those people care for each others, and may we and our loved ones never meet them when we are unwell or “simply” very old.”
Sorry, you seem to want to divide the blame amongst e/o -this simply is Not fair or true. The Torah does Not require you to lose your job or be sued if you now decide to break protocol. The blame lies squarely on the Gov. and those that put them there.
“PS Of course I fully realize an employee, if caught, jeopardizes and sometimes loses their job by not “following protocol”. There are many nurses who are unafraid of breach of protocol in regards to (at best) increasing certain drugs’ dosage against medical orders, and as a side effect hastening death.”
I don’t know if you are in the medical field or not, but you definitely are very ignorant about it. We take something called Medical Ethics. It Is the responsibility of a nurse to point out mistakes that have been ordered and to question those orders. Any nurse that willfully gives a lethal dose of medications has committed murder -legally and Halachically. Sometimes if you question an order – the prescriber says -“No, I am right”. At this point recheck your info and if you know you’re right – you are required to go over that person’s head. By not doing so – will get you fired and sued. I don’t know where you got these misconceptions from, but I hope I cleared them up.