YITZCHOK2: We’re talking about two different issues here. Before, I was under the impression that you were talking about apologies and NOT about chillul Hashem- in fact, in my very first response to you I noted that what I wrote applied only in the case of what seemed to me to be a necessary scenario for apology, and that even if everything is 100% aboveboard, it may be chillul Hashem.
I agree with you- the Lakewood incident was quite probably a chillul Hashem, which was NOT the subject of my posts in between my first response to you and this. That was on the subject of when do you need to apologize. This was, assuming it was legal, entirely a decision on the part of the government- it’s not even as though BMG did anything on its own to harm others. (I may also be utterly ignorant of yeshiva politics, but whatever.)
These kids- ANY KIDS- should apologize personally to the people they inconvenienced. (Just saying- I happen to be their age. If I were one of them and it had been my classmates acting up, even if it’s absolutely the most negligible behavior, I would be disgusted.) BMG, on the other hand, has nobody to apologize to- to the best of my knowledge, they didn’t do anything but get lucky. (See above for my assessment of my knowledge of yeshiva politics.)
The chillul Hashem aspect is completely separate. IM(NS)HO, ANYTHING that besmirches Hashem’s name and the reputation of the Jewish people is a chillul Hashem. Who is right and who is wrong is, as I said many times, immaterial. In that case, I stand by what you quoted me as saying. In the case of apology, not necessarily.
I don’t honestly know enough about the Lakewood situation to discuss it in this way apart from just guessing.
Just to clarify- my response in general is based on two points: they should apologize for the inconvenience caused to the passengers and this is a chillul Hashem. These are entirely separate, though in this case they mesh very well.
ETA: I just reread your post and something I missed before just struck me. I did not assume that the Lakewood thing was legal. I said that assuming that it is legal, this is my response. If not, then it is unconscionable.
You’re really reading my posts very selectively.