Reply To: RCA statement for Tisha B'Av

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#968870
HaKatan
Participant

Feif Un:

Judaism is not something one can practice any way one wishes. I have quoted gedolim who have spoken very harshly of some mistaken movements that have come up among certain Jews. If you don’t like their opinions, please feel free to find your own that disagree with them. But, to my knowledge, I am not a rasha, and if you aren’t even interested in my mechila, then I guess I needn’t mention it further.

In addition to the two holy great sages you mentioned, the Chofetz Chaim and Rav Elchonon HY”D, whom, as others have pointed out, knew very well already what Zionism was and is, I have also quoted from the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish who both lived in Eretz Yisrael through the founding of the State and various atrocities, like yaldei Tehran, committed by Zionists both before and after the State’s founding. So you are being disingenuous, to say the least, by claiming that gedolim’s opposition to Zionism was theoretical and also limited to before the State. This is simply not true.

(I don’t understand why you continue with your Lashon HaRa about Satmar. I did not even quote, Rav Yoel Zatza”L, though, as Rabbi Reisman wrote, this is not a “Satmar” shita; it is everyone’s shita. The main difference between Satmar and the other gedolim was tactical, post-establishment of the State. The Satmar Rav (and others) forbade “working from within” while some other permitted that. But none condoned Zionism, CH”V.)

Which gedolim are those who you claim “gedolim who say Israel is a brachah from Hashem!” As I mentioned, it is not a difference of opinion. Zionism and the State of Israel violated and continues to violate both of the two oaths that apply to Jews, according to the gedolim.

It is also a gross insult to the Torah, and to all thinking (not to mention to all the shmaded) Jews, to label as “a “Bracha” a Zionist State, whose very existence is to redefine a Jew from Torah-observant to Nationalist Goy. The Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish both called it a gizeira. History has further shown the utter disaster this State was and is. But you know better, I guess.

As to your “argument” that the goyim violated their oath and therefore we may violate ours, if you understood the sugya at all, you would know that this is not only wrong but that it makes no sense. The oaths are there for our protection in galus; why would anyone want to give that up?

Again, whom are those that you claim that the Nations’ oath “clearly was broken, so according to many, the 3 oaths no longer apply”?

There are not “many Rabbanim on both sides of the issue”. That is clear. As Rabbi Reisman wrote, the founding of the State did not change the applicability of the three oaths as held by all; it merely changed the tactics on the ground.