Exactly! They argue with you for the sake of arguing. With me they talk truth and emes!
Unfortunatley I am not so naive as to believe you. If you’re chillin’ out with them, all is fine. Otherwise, a lot of OTD’s (not all of them) are absolutely not interested in truth and emes. Were your claim to be true there would not be any OTD’s after they’ve gone through their teenage years and sorted all the issues out.
Trust in Hashem to work it out. It is not up to you to keep score on this
Hashem is the only one appropriate enough to judge. He does not put that responsibility in our incapable hands.
Antshuldigt, but you only see what you want to because I have repeatedly said that I’m not judging anything about them I’m just stating my opinion whether kids go off the derech because of bechira or not. In my last posts which I commented on rl’s post I did not mean the word judgement in the same context as you are.
Philosopher, wow, you really are a judgmental jew,” I am judging you that you do not understand the significance of being a frum Jew.” You would have to assume that I am NOT a frum jew to say that I do not understand the significance of being a frum jew and that is not only an asinine assumption it is quite false and inaccurate as is your entire propaganda.
I have never said or indicated that I thought you are not frum. One can be frum without realizing the greatness of Yiddishkeit. If I made a mistake with how I’ve really judged you, forgive me. But how can I judge you otherwise when you openly state “nachas is not tied up only in returning to Yiddishkeit” and the rest of what you stated in that paragraph? I don’t know , maybe we just have different opnions of what the word nachas means.
So if you spout how much you disdain what the OTD children are doing because it is against halacha then YOU yourself should refrain from breaking Hashem’s mitzvos and going against Halacha
And could you tell me exactly which halacha I’m breaking?
If you are talking about dan l’kaf zchus, I suggest you open a sefer and look through the halahcas.
Someone who openly and continuously sin one does not need to be dan l’kaf zchus.
I see you realize that I don’t disdain these OTD’s themselves as I have said I love them, but I don’t respect them because of their actions, but I am puzzled as to why you as a Jew who understands the significence of being a frum Jew would not disdain what OTD’s are doing, eating treifos and being mechalel Shabbos, but instead have nachas when they are only clean and sober.