Reply To: Why Would a Girl Even Want to Learn Talmud?

“I absolutely understand why a woman would want to learn Gemara. The same reason I want to learn Gemara. Gemara is the main source of Torah Sh’Bal Peh and you can’t fully understand or appreciate Torah without the Torah Sh’Bal Peh.”

Benig: If you say it, everyone believes you. If I say it, I need to justify myself to no end.

“You may have cute answers for the Rambam’s lashon”

LevAryeh: What exactly was cute about what I said?

I am familiar with that torah temimah. He also speaks at length somewhere else about his aunt (i think?) who forever bemoaned her state as a woman and that she cannot have a part in limud torah… whatever.

“You stated that having a deeper and more logical understanding of what Judaism is about would inspire you and strengthen your Emunah, as it were.

This is not about emunah. It’s about seeing some sort of struture and reason in halachah and hashkafa. Big difference.

“According to this, fewer boys should go off the derech than girls.” I never said this. This is your own extrapolation. I do not think many people go off the derech for intellectual reasons. Most people who go off the derech do so, mostly, for emotional reasons.

However, someone who does go off the derech for intellectual reasons, and it’s not so common, is usually the kind of person who would have been able to have tremendous influence had they remained in the fold. I know a number of people like this myself. They leave Judaism not to cry about their past miseries, but they go on to accomplish great things in other areas. So it’s just chaval to lose them.

“Of course,” replied the other rabbi. “The girls were looking at the Gemara, and the boys were looking at the girls!”

Why were the girls not looking at the boys too? I’m not saying this to be funny.

“I have learned in my travels that Talmudic Judaism’s logical structure stands on a base of spiritual BELIEF”

Bar-Magen: If I didn’t have some belief (I like to think of it more as konowledge) I wouldn’t be interested in learning gemara. Or anything Jewish at all. In the same way I don’t care to open up a quoran.

“And the reason she is wavering is because she doesn’t understand the logic behind what she is doing, especially as compared to her secular job. The rules and regulations appear to be random -the product of modern rabbinic fiat. A look at the inner workings, an understanding of the halachic process and the rigor of Talmudic thought can strengthen one’s resolve in keeping halacha and provide a mature intellectual religious satisfaction that reading an Artscroll book cannot.”

Benig: I couldn’t have said it better.

“As Lakewood001 said, the Gemara is rarely scientific (i.e. based on observation). The closest secular disciplines to Gemara are philosophy and law (Gemara has the lomdus of philosophy and the logic of law).”

I know this. Science in general operates with deductive reasoning and gemara operates usually more with inductive reasoning (at least that’s how I understood it. Am I correct?) But I’m not looking to learn gemara like science. I want to see the logic and rationality behind the laws to which I am expected to devote my life.

“As a guy, I think learning gemara is an essential step to take in order to understand halachah and Jewish life. “

rational frummie: like I told benig – if you, a guy, says it, it’s duh. If I woman says it, she’s a rebel, has emunah problems, must be undergoing a life crisis, is neglecting her real tafkid, blah blah blah…

“I think at the root of things you have sfeikos in Emunah and you need to figure out why it is that you got to this point… speak to a competent Rav and or Rebbetzin who can answer your questions…”

WIY: We are back to this again. I cannot deal with this circular reasoning.

It’s impossble that I’m just sincere. I have emunah problems.

I WAS the rebetzin. I taught about emunah for many years. That’s for the most part not where my questions are.

Rebetzin Heller was my teacher, actually. She is a wonderful, brilliant woman. But I don’t think she can teach me talmud. Besides, I don’t need to ask her if she thinks I should learn gemara – she will probably tell me I should.