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#983407
HakunaMatada
Member

Anonano-

You make good points, but I don’t agree with everything you said.

Obviously there are many shades of gray of MO. But I can say with confidence that there are people who are MO and b’shita don’t cover their hair. I have relatives who are MO, and got their hashkafos from their MO rabbi, who was very respected in the MO world, and he wasn’t makpid that women cover their hair or elbows, or not wear pants, and sometimes even shorts.I assume he did this because he didn’t want to turn them off, but I don’t think it’s okay to condone it, the same way we don’t condone chilul Shabbos when trying to be mikarev someone.

And let’s even grant that you’re right. But do you see masses of chareidi women waking around in short sleeves and hair uncovered? No, you never do. So it’s obviously somewhat accepted in MO circles, or it would never happen.

In regard to learning full time, as long as wives and parents have chashivus for learning and it’s financially feasible, what’s the excuse not to. My point is that it’s a different attitude. The chareidi hashkafa is that learning is the starting point, but if it doesn’t work out because of parnassa or because he’s not cut out for it, then it’s fine. I’ve been around MO kids and adults a lot, and I don’t get a vibe that talmud Torah is ideal way of life for EVERYONE, not just special prior.

And with regard to the not so zahir in halacha,I think you missed my point. I agreed that people aren’t perfect and are very careless in certain areas, lashon hara is a prime example, but the hashkafa is that there are no cutting corners in halacha, and factions of the MO world can’t say the same.

An important thing I forgot to mention is that if the rabbis are on board, then it says a lot more about what the MO world does, and most issues that people have with the way chareidim act are things that our rabbonim don’t approve of. but there are a significant number of MO rabbis who are on board with problematic practices of the community in general.

The problem is, there are many people who are machshiv Torah and mitzvos, but are pro Israel, so they identify with modern orthodoxy, and then you have people at the opposite end of the spectrum who do most of the basics, and label themselves as orthodox (rightly or wrongly), and everyone gets lumped together, so it’s really not fair. so yes, the more right wing MO are basically in agreement with chareidi on most issues.