May 9, 2017 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #1273194
What is גהנום all about?
a) Who goes there?
b) What life activities brings a person there?
c) What happens there?
d) How long does one there remain before leaving ?
e) Where does one go after leaving גהנום?
How is it different for a Tzadik, Beineni and a Rosho and between a Yehudi and Nochri.
And what’s it like for people who can neither enter גַּן עֵדֶן nor גהנום?
And what’s גַּן עֵדֶן like, all about and requirements for entry?May 9, 2017 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #1273233
Well, based on my experience….
Let’s just say that I try to daven every day not to have go to gehinnom. Preferably through Hashem helping me to do Teshuva and putting it in others’ minds to be moichel me.
This is probably one of the main tefillos that I try to constantly daven. I think it’s kidai for everyone (except for those who will become OCD).May 9, 2017 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #1273248
What will, then, save OCD people from going to גהנום?May 9, 2017 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1273259lesschumrasParticipant
A Rav passes away and goes up to heaven. He asks where Gan Eiden and is pointed to a long line of people waiting to be processed. While waiting, an Egged bus driver arrives and is pointed to the Gan Eiden express line and is admitted immediately. When the Rav finally reaches the front of the line, he asks the angel why he, the Rav, had to wait hours while the Egged bus driver was admitted within minutes. The The angel explained that admission was based on results, not not titles. When you spoke, not only weren’t people inspired, they slept. But when the Egged driver drove, every passenger, frum or not, davened with all their heartMay 9, 2017 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1273283
To prevent a long stay… Serve Hashem now with JOY 🙂May 10, 2017 9:36 am at 9:36 am #1273356SadigurarebbeParticipant
For starters read Hilchos Teshuva 3:6
Nedarim 39b – The purpose of Gehennom
Rosh haShanah 17a – The end of Gehennom
Sotah 10b – The levels of GehennomMay 10, 2017 10:24 am at 10:24 am #1273443iacisrmmaParticipant
R’ Avigdorr Miller tzatzal said that Gan Eiden and Gehinom are the same. Shiur is going on and Lunchtime is 1:00 and the clock stops at 12:55. To some people it is Gan Riden; to others it is GehinomMay 10, 2017 10:53 am at 10:53 am #1273502
What about fearing Hashem?May 10, 2017 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1273736
They are not supposed to be a contradiction. If they are, you are doing something wrong, and the fear is not real fear but rather of an OCD nature.May 10, 2017 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #1273733
There was a man who kept Halacha but always did things the most “b’dieved” way possible. He dies and goes up for judgment. He is told that since he kept halacha, he gets to go to Gan Eden. He asks if he can first see gehinnom (I don’t know why, but in these kinds of jokes, people always ask that).
So the malach takes him over to a fiery pit, he leans over and sees all the neshamas being tortured. He loses his balance and falls. So he starts screaming, “Take me out! I’m not supposed to go to gehinnom!”
So the malach responds, “Well l’chatchila, you weren’t supposed to go to gehinnom, but b’dieved……May 10, 2017 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #1273734
nice!May 10, 2017 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #1273735
I would just add that I don’t think the point is that people who find it easier to learn are more likely to go to Gan Eden than people who have ADHD and CAN’T sit.
The nimshal is conceptual, not necessarily literal. And the point (as I see it) is that the more steeped in Ruchnius one is and the more one DESIRES to be able to sit and learn and is looking for the day when he will go to Gan Eden and rid himself of his physical limitations (including his ADHD), so that he is able to sit and learn, to that extent he will earn Gan Eden.
I am just writing that to clear up possible misconceptions that any readers might have, and not because I thought you thought otherwise, Iacisrmma.May 10, 2017 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1273815
The following are things I learned, which at the time were well sourced. I did not make up any of this! I do not remember the sources, but perhaps some of the more learned people here can identify those sources:
Another approach is that Gehinom is an experience of intolerable deep shame and regret.
In this world, we are subject to time, as well as other parts of creation that mask the perpetual reality of Hashem, His Light, and our only purpose for being here – to do things that will make us closer to Him (read: s’char – reward). We have opportunities here. Once our time is up, we separate from the limitations of our bodies, creation in this world, and all other “things” that only exist in the world as we know it when we are alive. Those things may have served as a mask to the full Glory of Hashem, and His Omnipotence, causing us to at times choose things that did not bring us closer to Him. All at once, (there is no time outside the creation that we live in), we are faced with where we ARE, compared to where we COULD have been. It is crystal clear to us. And we can no longer do anything about it. The shame and regret is beyond what a living human being can fathom.
note: those of us in this world, who were in ANY way affected by the Neshama that has departed, CAN do things HERE that can affect that Neshama. The mitzvos, Torah learning, Kiddush Shem Shamayim, etc. that we do has a direct impact on “compensating” for the lost opportunities. That is why we say Kaddish for the first 11 months, and why children, students, or acquaintances deliberately do things for the Neshama to have an “Aliya”. After the first year, the yahrtzeit serves as a time where the persons’ life is again under “review” of some sort, and is a date on which we can, and should do things that give the Neshama an Aliya.May 10, 2017 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1273793
That’s not exactly accurate, Lilmod.
Reishis Chochma Yiras Hashem…. is supposed to come first.
I forget who I’m quoting (R’ Y. Salanter??)
Yirah without Ahava is a chisaron
Ahava without yirah is “gornisht”
But it is true that true Yiras Shamayim should take a logical path of leading to Ahavas Hashem.
Perhaps one way to explain this (this may not be exact), is imagine a strong, powerful, influential, kind and caring Boss. You recognize that he can fire you at any point… Yirah. But the way he interacts with you/cares for you is so, so positive, that you just want to make him happy. You know he is the Boss, but you love him, and are doing your work for him for that reason.
On the other hand, if you just do your work because you love him, when it comes to times that he does things that you don’t understand, the love may not carry you through. And you may act like a disgruntled employee.May 10, 2017 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1273836
If a person did proper Teshuva in this world – from Yirah – the negative act literally disappears. And if the person did proper Teshuva in this world – from Ahava – the negative act actually is transformed into a Mitzvah. This is not “logical”. But it is part of Creation. Teshuva had to be created separately, because it defies all of nature. (How can you change the past? You Can!!)May 10, 2017 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1273874
One thing is for certain: the non-Jewish understanding of the “bad” place, is completely wrong, and has no place in Yiddishkeit. Being raised in Golus, we are exposed to the beliefs of other religions, sometimes without realizing it. Especially because they sometimes use the same words as we do, when we are translating these concepts from Lashon Hakodesh, into whatever language we use. I don’t know what Gehinnom is for blatant Resha-im. I’m referring to Jewish people who were imperfect, and sometimes very, very far from perfect. They may have been completely secular; only Hashem can judge what opportunities they may have had that they missed. According to our Mesorah, Gehinnom is a temporary place, that serves a purpose.
Col Yisrael Yesh Lahem Chelek L’olam Habah.
One CAN lose their chelek, for example by embarrasing someone. But besides for asking mechila, and doing as much Teshuva as possible, the person then starts building up their chelek again.
There are things for which one can not do Teshuva, but very very few. Even things that are VERY bad, Yom Kippur can be mechaper in addition to teshuva; Yessurim can be mechaper in addition to teshuva; Misa can be mechaper in addition to teshuva.May 10, 2017 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1273901
TOL – the reference was to serving Hashem with Joy not with Ahavas Hashem. You are correct that Yiras Hashem (or at least a certain level of Yiras Hashem) comes first.
But that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. The Joy should always be there, whether we are serving Hashem with Yirah or with Ahava.
True Yiras Hashem is joyous.May 14, 2017 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1275784
Yes, Lilmos Ulelamaid, you are correct.
Yiras Shamayim should be done with Joy.
I think I mixed up the two, because the “movement” to serve Hashem with Joy these days, often mixes the two concepts.
Love sounds more joyful than Awe or fear, or trepidation. There are songs that seem to mix the two together. Perhaps it is more accurate to say, that often those who are singing and dancing (sometimes in the streets) that it is a mitzvah to always be happy, also seem to be focused on Loving HaShem (whatever that means to them). It just sounds “lighter”.
I was addressing that.
Still you are 100% correct. They are NOT automatically linked. Yiras Shamayim needs to be lived with Joy. That takes a deeper understanding.May 16, 2017 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1277376
Wow! I just learned the most awesome idea about schar and I have to share it with the CR!
How much schar a person will receive for his Mitzvos is proportional to his bitachon that he will receive schar for his Mitzvos. The more bitachon you have that you will receive schar for your Mitzvos, the more schar you will in fact receive!!!!!!
source: Sifsei Chaim – Rinas Chaim (“b’iurei tefilas Shemona Esrei”), p. 171 (based on the Maharal, Chidushei Agados, Sotah 48b)May 16, 2017 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #1277483
“The more bitachon you have that you will receive schar for your Mitzvos, the more schar you will in fact receive!!!!!!
source: Sifsei Chaim – Rinas Chaim (“b’iurei tefilas Shemona Esrei”), p. 171 (based on the Maharal, Chidushei Agados, Sotah 48b)” (Lilmod Ulelamaid)
I love it. Yays!!! ~ Thanks for sharing!!! ☺💡💡💡May 16, 2017 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1277484
And what’s it like for people who can neither enter גַּן עֵדֶן nor גהנום? (OP)
I just reread the OP. Joseph asked about what happens to someone who cannot go to Gan Eiden or Gehonim.
What does happen? Aren’t some people stuck as spirits. Someone I know told me his LOR told him that his non-blood related relative’s spirit was stuck haunting him because this someone got involved in dark things (heavier transgressions) and he has to do teshuvah for it. That relative also sinned so that is why he was stuck as a ghost. The LOR told him to keep giving tzedakah in the relative’s name, and pray that he gets an aliyah.
Okay honestly, is this normal? Would your LOR tell you the same? I felt like a jerk because at first I was super skeptical but I also believe in dark forces, so I really cannot say anything. I just felt like the tzedakah thing was too much because ever since then this person is still giving too much tzedakah (beyond 20% and at the expense of family priorities – but I don’t know. Maybe it is protecting him from the dead relative, may his memory be a blessing’s spirit from harming him — which the LOR seemed to be alluding to when he explained why the ghost visited him).
Is it true that some people are stuck haunting if they cannot make it to either side, G-d forbid and lo aleinu?
Thank youMay 17, 2017 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1277850WinnieThePoohParticipant
This is way over most people’s heads, definitely mine. There is a concept of dybbuk, some sort of spirit that possesses a person. There are real stories of real gedolim in the past who dealt with removing dybbuks. There have also been famous stories about dybbuks these days, I believe these were for the most part debunked as hoaxes.
Basically, the concept is real, but most ordinary LORs would not be seeing them or telling people about them. Perhaps someone great who is steeped in kaballa could deal with this concept.
Something about this story sounds fishy (pun intentional, for those who know what I am talking about). To encourage someone to give beyond the allowed amounts of tzedaka and damage his own family? This IMHO does not sound halachically sound.May 17, 2017 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1280148smerelParticipant
I heard a similar version of that joke (also a reference to Rav A Miller’s moshol) A guy who always relied on the most lenient shitos dies. They tell he is going to Gan Eden and send him to a room with a rickety shtender a well used Gemorah and a glass of hot tea and tell he will be left alone there forever. He asks “this is Gan Eden!?” “Yes” They tell him “According to some opinions…”May 17, 2017 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1280154
I agree with WTP. I think that the person in this story needs to get a new LOR. Maybe he should try for a NLOR (non-local Orthodox Rabbi). The term LOR has always bothered me. It sounds like people are choosing Rabbis based on their proximity. And since most Jews in the world do not live in such close proximity to Talmidei Chachamim, they really should be looking for NLOR’s, IMHO.
And even for those of us who do live in close proximity to Talmidei Chachamim, one still should not choose a Rav based on proximity. Especially in today’s day and age when it’s really not necessary.
It is important to remember that all that being a Rabbi means is that he has semicha. As I have mentioned previously, having semicha nowadays is often pretty meaningless. There are thousands of people with semicha, and the vast majority are not qualified to answer sheilas or give aitza. Or there may be many who can answer certain types of questions but not others.
Any time you get an answer that doesn’t sit well with you, take it to someone else. And don’t decide that someone is your Rav until you have spoken to them enough and feel comfortable with their answers. And even then, it is important to realize that you are unlikely to find one Rav who is qualified to answer every type of question. You may find that you need one Rav for halacha and another for hashkafa and another for personal advice. And you may need to go to different Rabbanim for different categories in halacha.May 17, 2017 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1280155
ps: I realize this wasn’t about you; I just felt it was important to mention all that.May 18, 2017 6:45 am at 6:45 am #1280277
Oh oh oh oh!!!
Yesterday I listened to a shiur by a rebbetzin on TorahAnytime!
She said that we’re not supposed to die for Hashem but LIVE for Hashem. She said that dying is one time. You die. It’s much harder to live every single day for Hashem, passing each new test that comes our way. Hashem wants us to live for him. He created the world for life. The Torah for LIFE.
I kept thinking about this thread 🙂May 18, 2017 6:46 am at 6:46 am #1280276
Thanks LU. It still made sense and honestly thank you because I didn’t consider the non-LOR.
This person’s rabbi is the most LOR – that LOR’s shul is within walking distance to this person.
I don’t know if everyone chooses a fitting rabbi. In this case, I think it’s more like the person is in awe of the rabbi and wants to be on that “higher” level of spirituality and existence, or the proper term here. Learning with some rabbis comes with status, and the rabbi holds weight in the community.
I don’t know about the fishyness in WTP’s sense, but to me it isn’t fair. Just because someone is happy to give and all too willing to be generous doesn’t mean that it’s a good thing and a mitzvah when it negates other priorities. — Honestly, I was amazed when my LOR taught me that years ago! I had no clue! Even his younger son agreed at the Shabbos table. It was obvious to them. But I was so used to hearing about how tzedakah is so important that I thought I wasn’t supposed to have any money, which wasn’t fun because then I relied on tzedakah (!) — It’s confusing.
You know, thank you because this whole posting made me realize how sometimes being of meager means is a blessing! Well I’m a woman anyway. But still, it must be hard to have some money and be successful and have different causes pulling on you to donate, and as long as no one sees what goes on at home and in the bank account, one can keep up a front. When does it stop? Not everyone will stop or wants to stop. It’s a big test to say No sometimes.
Thanks!May 22, 2017 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #1282684oyyoyyoyParticipant
i dont think this kinda stuff works on people nowadays. Especially if they think theyre headed without any stop overs already. Positive stuff is the way for us now. Ask ur local rabbi that knows all 5 chelkei s'”aMay 22, 2017 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #1282700WinnieThePoohParticipant
That is why we use Halacha as the gauge of what is proper behavior, and not our own feelings. Because excessive good is not always good.May 22, 2017 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1282792Moshe1994Participant
Thank you @ Thinking out loud for the excellent explanation I really appreciate it.May 22, 2017 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1282931
“There are things for which one can not do Teshuva, but very very few.”
What can’t you do teshuva for? I was always under the impression that you can do teshuva for anything, although there may be things that it is very difficult to do teshuva for.May 23, 2017 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1283506
Rav Avigdor Miller on Passing By the Entrance to Gehenim in Your Own Kitchen:
I learned a גמרא that says that in ירושלים there is an entrance that leads into גיהנם (Eiruvin 19a). What does that mean? Isn’t גיהנם in some sort of spiritual world – somewhere not in this physical world?
When the גמרא says that near ירושלים there was a place that was called the פתחה של גיהנם – the entrance way into Gehenom – it means that when you pass by any place where smoke issues from the earth, make sure not to waste that opportunity. Utilize it as a reminder of גיהנם. The truth is, that the smoke, and the hole where that smoke is being generated in the bowel of the earth, is not even the slightest comparison to גיהנם. No comparison at all! גיהנם is a thousand times worse. But we have to train ourselves. We have to think about it. Just because גיהנם is not in this world, that’s exactly why you need to create for yourself artificial reminders about גיהנם. Otherwise, it won’t mean anything to you. It’s very important to think of גיהנם.
Where is Hitler right now if not in גיהנם? Otherwise, you’ll think that Hitler could do what he did and then take a poison that’s flavored and leave this world to escape punishment? No! He’s getting it right now! באמונה שלימה you have to know that there is גיהנם. But how do you train yourself? You have to train yourself to believe in גיהנם. Without putting effort into it, it will just remain a pale idea in your mind. If you ever pass a fissure in the earth and smoke is coming out of it, then think, “That’s גיהנם.” It’s an important opportunity that shouldn’t be missed.
Any opportunity of that kind should be utilized. The גמרא says that אש, fire, is one-sixtieth of גיהנם. Here’s a woman and she’s standing in her kitchen and she accidently puts her finger on the hot tea kettle – wooh! It hurts! It hurts terribly! She burns her finger and she should think, “Oh, that’s a gift. The gift of דעת ה׳.” It’s an opportunity that shouldn’t be wasted. “That’s how גיהנם is going to be,” she should think. “For speaking לשון הרע on the telephone, I’m going to have to put my tongue on that pot. Not my finger. My tongue! And it’ll be stuck to the tea kettle and I won’t be able to pull it off. I’ll have to put my tongue against the tea kettle and it will be stuck there a long time. Oh, ow! Ow! Ow! I’m so sorry.” And Hashem will say, “Just a few more hours – a few more hours.”
So אש is a משל for גיהנם. Of course, the אש of גיהנם is not only sixty times worse than the fire. It’s much worse than that. Sixty times is only a משל. And we need משלים for גיהנם. Absolutely, we need משלים for גיהנם! We have to remind ourselves. No question about it. גיהנם is very big. And it’s full of רשעים. All the people who have done evil are there. Titus is in גהינם right now. And all the רשעים. Nebuchadnezzar is in גיהנם. All of the רשעים are in גיהנם. Of course, המן is an old citizen there too. All the Germans and the German people. Not only six million Germans. There will be eighty million Germans in גיהנם. All eighty million who voted for Hitler. They all will be in גהינם. Most of them are already there, ברוך ה׳. Trust me, גיהנם is very big. There’s enough room for all the רשעים. You have to believe באמונה שלימה that there’s a גיהנם. A very big גיהנם. It’s just as important as believing in הקדוש ברוך הוא. You have to know what you’re saying when you say הנשא שופט הארץ השב גמול על גאים. “When is Hashem elevated? Only when you know that he turns back recompense on the wicked, arrogant ones – the רשעים.” When you truly understand that there’s a recompense on the רשעים, then you have אמונה in הקדוש ברוך הוא. And that’s why you must take advantage of any opportunity. And that’s what the גמרא means when it says that as you pass by a fissure in the earth’s surface and smoke is coming out, make sure to think of גיהנם.May 23, 2017 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1284022WolfishMusingsParticipant
c) What happens there?
You have to sit and talk to me 24/7.
The WolfMay 24, 2017 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1284446oyyoyyoyParticipant
Joseph, do you know anyone that grows from that today? Im not saying its unture, im saying this is not the avodah in 2017. Were weak and cant handle the old school way a much. Lots of people started knowing that relating to themselves and get more involved in warmer or more chissidic approaches in getting closer to G-d.
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