August 1, 2012 3:46 am at 3:46 am #604370
As a Bochur in Yeshiva, I am “forced” to do my own laundry. As I expressed in other threads, I hate laundry and I know how hard it can be. I also have seen, in my home and in other homes, how much work is done in the kitchen by mothers. From preperaing meals to cleaning dishes, its a never-ending cycle. I have witnessed the last dirty item cleaned from the sink while a new dirty items was placed inside!! And then there is the other things…like cleaning the house and taking care of the kids…and so on!! And all this with a smile (most of the time!)!!!
It may seem like men don’t appreciate what you do, but we really do! We just might forget to say it!!
So. on behalf of your husband, children, your mother-in-law, and all men:
who is waiting to be able to thank his wife for everything!August 1, 2012 9:15 am at 9:15 am #1180320
I second this. We men don’t have a clue of the amount of work our women do when we are not around.
Me, I do quite a lot in the house: I cook 4-5 times per week (including regularly for leil shabbos – she does for shabbos day), I hang most of the laundry. But the work she puts into washing dishes, cleaning the house, folding the laundry, keeping things organized, and often doing all of it, plus working 5 hours per day, is just amazing.August 1, 2012 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1180321
That was beautiful Sidi! +1000August 1, 2012 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1180322ZeesKiteParticipant
So.. You a a Bachur?!?August 1, 2012 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #1180323🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Now I think you are even MORE awesome than I thought you were before!!!August 1, 2012 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1180324
“We men don’t have a clue of the amount of work our women do”
our women? women are people not property.August 1, 2012 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1180325
wow, Sidi! that’s so sweet and thoughtful and sensitive of you! Shows you have an ayin tova, which i hope takes you very far in life.
as a girl (yeah, yeah, i’m still single, so i don’t even know the half of it, but) i can tell you we definitely need to feel appreciated, and that what we’re doing is not going unnoticed. so I’m with you on the thank you part. (shout out to gefen: thank you!) 🙂
Sidi, may you very soon have a wife to thank 🙂 whoever ur wife is gonna be, she’s sure a lucky one!August 1, 2012 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1180326on the ballParticipant
“….women are people not property”
See Kidushin Daf 2 Amud 1 – HaIsha Niknis B’Shlosho Derachim – A woman is acquired in 3 ways…..”August 1, 2012 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1180327No One Mourns The WickedMember
Wow, SiDi, for a single guy to be able to recognize that is beautiful!
“SiDi, may you very soon have a wife to thank 🙂 whoever ur wife is gonna be, she’s sure a lucky one!”
+1August 1, 2012 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1180328
Thanks everyone for your nice responses!
The Chassidishe Gatesheader: Kol Hakavod!! I hope to help around my house a lot as well, IY”H. But laundry (esp. shirts) I’m gonna try to work my way out of. (If I have to do it, like baby-time, my Yeshiva experince would be there to serve me as a guide. But I can tell you they won’t be as clean as “she” does it!!!)
ZeesKite: And is there something wrong with that?!?
Syag Lchochma: Thanks a million! But always remember: CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!
Yummy Cupcake: thanks as well! I don’t know how lucky she will be, but I sure will be lucky to get one! And nice to see you around! (And what I wrote to Syag at the end also applys to you. For all you know I’m some mean monster trying to get people to like me so that I can eat them up!!)
on the ball: I’ll stay out of this conversation…August 1, 2012 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1180329CuriosityParticipant
A wife isn’t her husband’s “property” per se, but the way you make a kiddushin on a woman is much like that of an “acquisition” of property (kinyan – “isha nikneis”). However, she obviously can’t be sold, traded, or neglected like personal property. On the other hand, they are “our women”, just like we are “their men”. Maybe before Rabbeinu Gershom we weren’t “their men” as much as they were “our women”.
For most of history Jewish societies were the most liberal, where women were treated with much more respect and dignity than they were in other societies. Today, ironically, the West sees us as being outdated and sexist.August 1, 2012 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1180330
Sidi you are right it was nitpicky i retract the comment.August 1, 2012 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #1180331
Curiosity: as I said, I will stay out of this coversation. But when reading your post you said:
they are “our women”, just like we are “their men”
which seems to imply that you are a male. But then you said
…West sees us as…
which seems to imply the opposite.
SiDi™August 1, 2012 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #1180332frummy in the tummyParticipant
Curiosity’s “us” was referring to Jewish Americans, not women.August 1, 2012 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1180333CuriosityParticipant
SIDI – “Us” was going back on “Jewish societies”, not on “women”. Sorry for the misunderstanding.August 1, 2012 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #1180334
btw, sidi, its also really special how you go back and specifically reply to each person who writes to you. wow wow wow! she IS gonna be lucky 🙂August 1, 2012 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1180335
Goq™: Your the man!!
Curiosity anf Frummy in the tummy: Got it!! (BTW, Frummy, are you only Frum when it comes to Kosher?!!)
SiDi™August 1, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1180336princess17Member
thats great of u to say that! all men should learn from you,i hope you will always remeber to appreciate what woman- ur mother now and wife one day iyh ,do. and not take it for granted because sometimes people forget and they get used to it. may u be zoche to find ur future wife soon!August 1, 2012 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #1180337MorahRachMember
Such a nice thing to say! I think the point of your post got a little lost with people going off topic but.. Wow!! I hope you find a wonderful wife soon who does all those things and that she appreciates you just as much as you do her!!August 1, 2012 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #1180338more_2Member
Just another mod character. But I must say, it was well said. It’s great that you appreciate what women do.August 1, 2012 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1180339oomisParticipant
Nice post, nice guy. Hope you find your basherteh very soon at the right time.August 1, 2012 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1180340
“our women? women are people not property.”
I keep saying that to MY husband!
He quotes chazal: “Ishto k’gufo”, a man’s woman is like his body.
My husband is m’dayek: We don’t say the reverse – “ish shela k’gufa”, that a woman’s man is like her body!August 1, 2012 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #1180341
Cherish your mothers. The ones who wiped your tears, who were at every ball game or ballet recital. The ones who believed in you, even when nobody else did, even when maybe you didn’t believe in yourself.
Women wear many hats in their lives. Daughter, sister, student, breadwinner. But no matter where we are or what we’re doing, one hat that moms never take off is the crown of motherhood.
There is no crown more glorious.
-Ann Romney (First Lady, 2012)August 1, 2012 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1180342torahblazerMember
woman do sooooo much ….. some of what we see and lots that we don’t actually see , they are super and are appreciated, they deserve great rewardsAugust 2, 2012 6:59 am at 6:59 am #1180343ZeesKiteParticipant
Some mothers are so wonderful. They can even get their kids to think they’re ZeesKites.August 2, 2012 11:35 am at 11:35 am #1180344☕️coffee addictParticipant
kudos sidi, bshaah tova!
we should keep on taking the cchf videos to heart (liros tov) and like i mentioned in another thread appreciation is the most essential part of a marraige (a reason why i feel the divorce rate is so high nowadays)August 2, 2012 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #1180345
on the ball: see Kiddushin Daf 2 Amud 2 – the mishna says HaIsha Niknis to teach us that this “acquisition” requires the woman’s consent.
Goldenpupik: your husband’s diuk does not make sense. ishto k’gufo, as you said, means his wife is like his body. So a husband and wife are like one body. So of course a husband’s body is like his wife… they are like one body! I assume (and everyone knows what happens when you assume) that the diuk was made in jest; I’m just pointing out a response…August 2, 2012 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #1180346
And of course there’s the famous joke:
When a husband goes missing, the wife is an agunah. When he’s not missing, the husband is an agun.
On a serious note, though, bnei Torah should always have hakares hatov to bnos Yisroel, and the best way to show that is for bnei Torah to express it directly to their wives, mothers, etc. and to hold up their end of the bargain in the beis.August 2, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1180347BaalSechelParticipant
On a lighter note: When I was a bochur in Yeshiva, I thought to myself that all my needs are taken care of by the Yeshiva except for laundry. The only benefit to me from having a “helper” will be the laundry, that I will finally not have to do.
When I married my ayshis chayel, she was so busy finishing school and working full time to support me, that she didn’t have time to do my laundry. Part of me (an insignificant part) thought, “so what did I get out of marriage?”August 2, 2012 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #1180348gefenParticipant
Awww Yummy – thanks so much (blushing).
Hey maybe we can make a shidduch between Sidi and Yummy. Sounds like a match made in heaven (or at least the cr)August 2, 2012 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1180349
577: “Goldenpupik: your husband’s diuk does not make sense. ishto k’gufo, as you said, means his wife is like his body. So a husband and wife are like one body. So of course a husband’s body is like his wife… they are like one body! I assume (and everyone knows what happens when you assume) that the diuk was made in jest”
My husband is a adom godol and all his words have sources in Torah.
There is a b’ferush Tosfos that supports his diyuk/”jest” (which I discovered while doing my Daf Yomi – which BTW I recommend for all ladies as it creates a mutual bond with my husband’s learning as we shmooz in the same sugya – thank you Art Scroll!!).
Anyway, unfortunately there the Tosfos is in Kesubos daf 2b, first Tosfos on the Omud, “Matzi”: A woman is the “field” of the husband but the husband is not her “field”! (This implies that Ishto k’gufo does not reverse into Ish shela k’gufa).
However, if there is a way to “shlog op” my husband’s diyuk (with a raya – not merely a “boich svora” which my hubby jests that they give him “stomach aches”), I would love to hear!!!
I challenge the lomdim and lomdos in the CR!!August 2, 2012 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #1180350
I just “discovered” a b’ferush Ohr Ha’Chayim in Parshas Kedoshim 20:9 that says:
“when a son curses his Father, then he is also cursing his Mother together with the Father, and the same the reverse (when cursing the Mother, the father is also being cursed) because they are one guf, as Chazal say “Ishto k’gufo” and therefore what is done to one is also done to the other”
Hence we see that Ishto k’gufo works both ways! (Don’t you love the Bar Ilan Program – I have the entire Torah literally at my fingertips!!)
Although this seems b’stira to Tosfos in Ksubos 2b, which I need a lamdon or lamdonis to answer!August 2, 2012 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #1180351
he says “as a bochur in yeshiva…” could mean he’s in 10th grade!
but thanks anyway, gefen 🙂August 2, 2012 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1180352
Goldenpupik: the only boich svara here is yours. You are taking that Tosefos grossly out of context.
What is Tosefos’ kasha? In this case, his opening line reveals the implicit kasha: why can’t the man claim that the woman’s luck caused her to be sick (and therefore he shouldn’t have to feed her)?
The first answer accepts the validity of the kasha and says because since she’s not obligated in pru u’rvu, she can’t be punished (in other words, there’s no mitzvah for her to marry).
The second answer, per Tosefos’ M.O., rejects the validity of the kasha. A woman is her husband’s field and not the other way around, which in this case means that the obligation is on the man to feed the woman, not on the woman to be fed by the man.
This has nothing to do with ishto k’gufo. I don’t know your husband, and I’m not impugning his status, but in this case what you have said in his name is wrong.
Additionally, in light of the explanantion of this Tosefos, your “stira” in your second post doesn’t begin.August 2, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #1180353
577 wrote: “Goldenpupik: the only boich svara here is yours. You are taking that Tosefos grossly out of context.”
Have you ever heard of the Goan Reb Yossef Engel? He wrote several seforim such as Gilyonei Hashas, Lekach Tov / Asvon D’Oraysa. He also wrote Bais Ha’Otzer.
Well, in Bais Ha’Otzer, klall 207, “Ishto k’gufo” he learns p’shat in Tosfos exactly in the manner that you call a boich svora. According to you, he takes this Tosfos “grossly out of context”.
With all due respect, I wonder who says pshat correctly, you or reb Yossef Engel?August 2, 2012 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1180354
Wow, I responded al regel ahas… I need to correct a few errors in my response (and stop responding al regel ahas so often):
First, just delete what I wrote in parentheses in my previous post regarding mitzvah to marry. That opens up a can of worms (well, actually rishonim, but anyhow it’s not shiach to the point).
Second, I should just clarify that taka yes, “a woman is her husband’s field” does refer to r’shus issues… meaning that yes, the wife enters the husband’s r’shus and not vice versa. However, she cannot be sold like a field, so one must understand there are limitations to this statement.
Thirdly, I meant to only bold the “in this case”… meaning that a woman’s status as her husband’s field refers to r’shus as I said, so since she enters his r’shus and becomes zocheh to his providing for her (and not the other way around), the man cannot claim that her mazal is at fault.
Anyhow, it still has nothing to do with ishto k’gufo. And regardless, I should’ve mentioned before, but you haven’t showed how my original logic was a boich svara. You’ve just brought a Tosefos and tried to equate it to ishto k’gufo.August 2, 2012 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #1180355shlishiMember
Goldenpupik: Like 557 said, that is boich svara. I’ll start another thread to explain to you the Torah’s view on the relationship between husband and wife.August 2, 2012 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1180356
577 wrote: “you haven’t showed how my original logic was a boich svara”
The boich svara was when you wrote: “So a husband and wife are like one body. So of course a husband’s body is like his wife… they are like one body!” This svara is without ANY m’kor.
You disagree that Tosfos can be a raya that ishto k’gufo means that only the wife is like the husbands guf, but not the reverse. To you it is poshut that they are one body and each other’s guf.
As my husband would say, adarabah, apparently THAT is a shaylah discussed in the Bais HaOtzer by Reb Yossef Engel referenced earlier. On close examination, HE is the one who equates that Tosfos as a rayah to explain ishto k’gufo. A position you seem to disagree with!
Reb Yossef Engel also brings a kabbalistic pirush that the wmoan is like the guf and the husband is like the neshama – therefore, to the man-neshama, his wife is k’gufo, but clearly not the reverse, that the husband is k’gufa.
If you have a Bar Ilan program you can search further on ishto k’gufo for others who discuss this topic:
Me’iri Sanhedrin 28b in the name of Yesh Omrim that “ishto k’gufo” is specific that the wife is like the guf of husband but NOT reverse – not like your boich sevra that they are one body and the husband is like the woman’s body; See also Mordichai simon 697 and B.Y. and Bach s. 33.
(I need the Bar Illan but my husband knows these mkoros off the cuff!)August 3, 2012 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1180357
I don’t want to say my age, but I will say that I’m between 20 and 25.
SiDi™August 3, 2012 2:24 am at 2:24 am #1180358147Participant
In light of the Shidduch crisis, & in honor of T’u b’Ov, I have just been Mesaken a new Berocho:- “Shelo Ossoni Kohen”, because all Yisroelim & Leviyim, as they this T’u b’Ov are meeting ladies in white dresses, have so much more availability & flexibility & opportunity, without the highly restrictive regulations pertinent to Kohanim.August 14, 2012 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1180359frummy in the tummyParticipant
SiDi – It’s only in the tummy that I am frummy; outside the tummy I am Super Frummy (or at least that’s what this cape says).December 30, 2013 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1180360
SiDi™December 30, 2013 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1180361Little FroggieMember
And what, if I may ask, are you waiting for.December 31, 2013 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1180362
“SiDi, may you very soon have a wife to thank :)…”December 31, 2013 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #1180363Little FroggieMember
Thought so. Let me add my brochos to the pile. “SiDi ben imo l’zivug hagun, b’mheirah.”December 31, 2013 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1180364
LF: Amein and thanks!!
SiDi™September 5, 2016 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1180366
Stopping by to thank a very special woman who devotes her every waking minute to help people. BH, you are amazing! May Hashem pay you back a billion times over! Stay strong!!
SiDi™September 5, 2016 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1180367YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Is it “her”?September 5, 2016 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1180368SparklyMemberSeptember 5, 2016 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1180369Little FroggieParticipant
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