50,000 Heroes, ????? ?? ????

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  • #603614
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    In contrast to a regular outing to a stadium, where a crowd of spectators applaud and salute the team of heroes within, this assemblege was the reverse, the true heroes were those Fifty Thousand Plus in attendance, coming for one common, united purpose, saluted (addressed, encouraged) by the dais within.

    We already see what HaShem tests the other nations with – ????? ??? ???????. See what they do (actually no need to look). See us struggling to avert our eyes and minds in face of this mighty attack.

    How much pure nachas HaShem reaps from each and every one of us, today more than ever!!!

    How lucky I am to be part of this Nation of Heroes.

    (a thought of one of HaShem’s ZeesKites)

    #877381
    msseeker
    Member

    Wow, beautiful thought.

    #877382
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    As someone who was there and spoke to people , Many came because they were communal pressures or curiosity.

    many were not paying attention to the sermons especially the ones in Yiddish

    #877383
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Yummy fluff.

    #877384
    avhaben
    Participant

    ZK: Beautiful explanation.

    ZD: Many people were in tears at the stadium. Almost all voluntarily came for the chizuk. Many of those whose Yiddish is weak (or nonexistant) were having their neighbors sitting next to them explain the droshos. Many cancelled their internet the very next day.

    Someone told me he called Verizon Wireless the next day to cancel his internet on his phone. The cancellation representative at Verizon, during their phone conversation, remarked to him “I don’t know what’s going on today; all day we are getting calls from people to cancel their data service!”

    #877385

    I think most people were motivated to attend because they were put under extreme pressure to show up and didn’t want their children getting kicked out of school. Some showed up out of curiosity or boredom. Others because they do what they are told out of habit and it’s easier than asking questions or applying critical thinking. When 50,000 people are motivated to spend the day doing chessed, instead of wasting $3 million dollars and munching on danishes while listening to hours of grandstanding, I’ll happily call them heroes.

    #877386
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    ZD, Sorry, make that 49,993.6+

    #877387
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “What motivated fifty thousand plus members of one nation to come together and hear sermons, reproach, admonishing them and demanding great change and moral refinement.”

    Well, I was one of those people, and I did not go to hear sermons of any sort. I went to hear practical advise how to live with internet access, since that is what the advertisements inviting me to attend, stated.

    I stopped reading after your opening line since I was clearly not one of the people you refer to. I’m sure whatever it is you wrote, is wonderful. Yasher koach.

    #877388
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    ZD: Many people were in tears at the stadium. Almost all voluntarily came for the chizuk. Many of those whose Yiddish is weak (or nonexistant) were having their neighbors sitting next to them explain the droshos. Many cancelled their internet the very next day.

    I dont know what Asifa you were at, but I saw people DURING Rav Wosner Psak using their smartphones (and I mean ALOT of people)

    I saw people talking to their friends, basically ignoring the speeches

    I saw alot of people behind the stand sort of exploring the stadium (Many had never been to a stadium before)

    And I saw alot of people leave early (Those who could because they came by themselves)

    There were THOUSANDS of Tweets during the event with the Tag #Asifa and many were not very kind from the Asifa itself

    #877389
    AZ
    Participant

    Avhaben:

    IN the vicinty of half a million people tuned in to the asifa

    (50,000 at locations, thousands more in satellite hookups, and for every person that went there were prbably ten friends who said, nu what did they say?)

    A organizer was so proud two days later that 1700 people had called to put on filters.

    I laughed in his face

    one NASI alone ad got 1700 calls!!

    500,000 people could have been reached, and you have 1700 people, maybe by now a few thousand.

    You could have have a few HUNDRED THOUSAND running to make sure they had proper internet protection.

    that’s what i call a epic and collosal failure.

    AH: by insiting on the message of no internet unlees it’s in a office for business etc. you will continute to have the masses tune out.

    Btw: Av Haben, how on earth can you justify your being in this forum. This forum is certainly NOT for parnassah.

    I’m guessing you are a troll. only way to explain that.

    B”H it seems like for the most part common sense and reality will win out, but it will take much longer than it should have.

    #877390
    Chulent
    Member

    I wonder if the naysayers of this kedushadik event are frum or, more likely, the spiritual heirs of the eruv rav and those who were happy to swim in the 49th sharei tumah and didn’t want to leave Mitzrayim.

    #877391
    #877392
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I agree with ZD (sorry ZK) (sorry klal yisrael too) I came because I thought I would hear how the gedolim felt we should use the internet (what I term the Eitz Hadaas)(look at Onkelos by the word piryo by the Eitz) afterwards I got k9 for my phone (I already use koshernet for my computer)

    anyways I thought the mods werent letting these threads up (I know I’m putting my foot in my mouth)

    #877393
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    One doesnt have to believe me what happend, However in the internet and SmartPhone age everything is documented.

    Its alot more difficult nowadays to let anything slip by.

    And there were lots of people taking pictures, taking videos of EVERYTHING going on at the Asifa. Nothing went past anyone.

    I am fairly certain that at least some of the videos of the asifa were made by people in the stands and uploaded to various websites.

    There are videos of people using their smartphones during the speeches and there are videos of just normal people doing whatever they were doing.

    #877394
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “I think most people were motivated to attend because they were put under extreme pressure to show up and didn’t want their children getting kicked out of school.”

    Don’t discount this at all. My daughters school sent home a letter before Yom Tov apologizing to parents for DEMANDING attendance at the asifa.

    #877395
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “kedushadik event”

    The dichotomy herein is that people had to be mislead regarding the theme of the asifa to get them to come.

    #877396
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “kedushadik event”

    The dichotomy herein is that people had to be mislead regarding the theme of the asifa to get them to come.

    #877397
    golfer
    Participant

    AZ: I have followed your advice & comments on NASI for a long time. Honestly, I am shocked to read your comments here. I always assumed you were an ehrlich (albeit anonymous) guy, trying to help his fellow Yidden (albeit sometimes misguidedly). But to hear you say here that you “laughed in his face” regarding an organizer of the asifa leaves me slightly stunned. People have many opinions about the asifa, but nobody denies it was organized under the auspices of many gedolim & great talmidei chachamim. A little respect please! If this organizer was feeling proud of the response to his efforts, and you found that response weak and not worthy of pride, you could have nodded politely and kept your thoughts to yourself; courteous behavior we all (hopefully) learned in the schoolyard when the little pipsqueak showed off his amazing ability to get the ball in the basket when we could dunk blindfolded. If anything he deserved your consideration in light of the fact that he was implementing the wishes of people who are most certainly deserving of your respect. I’m not sure it’s your business to pronounce this asifa an “epic & colossal failure.” Apparently you feel that you (and only you) have the answers to the shidduch crisis, the internet crisis, and who knows what other troubles. You may feel that Rav M Salomon, Rav E Wachsman, Rav D Segal, and the many other Rabbonim who spoke and/ or attended the asifa are not your spiritual leaders, and you do not wish to take instruction from them. But your attitide displays your amazing hubris and shows your true character!

    #877398
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Somehow, your definition of a “hero” seems to be far different from mine.

    Needless to say, very few, in any people in the audience were “heroes.” That’s not to say that they weren’t engaged in something beneficial and positive, but doing so does not make one a “hero.”

    And if that opinion makes me a spiritual heir of the eruv rav, then fine. I never claimed to be better than the eruv rav. Heck, at least the eruv rav managed to keep Yom Tov, unlike me who, according to a prominent rav in my neighborhood, has not kept Yom Tov for quite a while.

    The Wolf

    #877399
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    I’m sorry people, please don’t get the assumption I had anything AT ALL to do with this greatest Asifas Chizuk. (I wish I had some hand, something, to be ???? ???? ????? ?????, I think they got along quite well without cute little me.)

    Those were just some of my humble thoughts.

    I’m sorry it’s not bringing out the best in all of. I waited to comment until now, as I wrote earlier, I didn’t want to be the cause of breaking the spell it had. I did not want to be an ????, to be cause to be the first to laugh it off (in public, no less). Unfortunately I was wrong.

    It seem that the voice of Torah true views is dwindling here, due to.. the Asifa.

    So…

    #877401
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    Ulefi shehotzi atzmo min haklal, kofar beikur.

    #877402
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    The voice of Torah true Jews is dwindling? Are you serious?! We dare to disagree with your viewpoint and you dare to accuse us of not being Torah Jews? Your self righteousness has surpassed the point of offensive.

    #877403
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Exactly what is “the klal” doing that he is deliberately not.

    #877404
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I am aware of my typo but the point remains the same

    #877405
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Syag Lchochma:

    Excuse me, is there anything I wrote that was offensive to you? MY self righteousness? MY views?!? These individuals are mocking / spiting the very Gedolei Torah we so cherish. We – the majority of Torah Jews. The ones who willingly came to be guided, strengthened, inspired.

    And I thought this was the Yeshiva World, where Torah and Torah ideals rule supreme. I used to frequent another site, until I found that one very lacking in major Torah hashkafa issues. So I found this one, blessfully moderated, with a Torah mindset, Torah and Gedolei Torah in strict reverence.

    Must I leave this one too?

    #877406
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Furthermore, Syag, why does it always rub you when I mention any zecher, any visage of Kedusha, Mitzvohs, HaShem? What irks you so much? Isn’t that what being a Jew is supposed to be?

    For heaven’s sake, this IS the Yeshiva World, where else should I run. ????? ???? ?????, not to run away!

    #877407
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Tznius is not a mitzva I take lightly.

    #877408

    It’s interesting that those with a filter think it was a huge success and those without a filter or who have read the coverage from unfiltered sources believe it was unsuccessful, people were bullied into attending, the advertising was misleading and that the best part was the free danish. Seems to me that having a filter presents it’s own kind of danger as misinformation can easily be presented as fact to those who filter. Practical tips on self control would have been a lot more useful than treating adults like children who need to be told what to do. You get in the car and it can take you to shul or to someplace disreputable, the internet is no different. Jews are not meant to live blindfolded and locked in a basement to avoid temptation, we are supposed to master things like self control over the course of our lives by facing challenges, not avoiding living in the world. Btw, I have a friend who found a filter on her computer at work the next day, she was unable to access the information that she needs to do her job properly. She works with an extremely vulnerable population of the Jewish community and that’s unacceptable and a terrible outcome.

    #877409
    Sam2
    Participant

    Zees: None of your points are inherently wrong. But when you take things too far you hurt your own points and you insult others. By making it seem that your opinion (and the opinion of those Gedolim and Poskim you follow) is the only “Torah true” opinion, you cut yourself off from the part of the Klal that disagrees with you. Machlokes is supposed to be Marbeh Shalom, not Sinah and division. Eilu V’eilu is more than just an important Halachic concept. It’s a way of life. Now, one has to be very careful in knowing which opinions are valid and fall under Eilu V’eilu and which opinions don’t fall under the framework of valid Halachic positions. But more valid positions exist than just your own.

    #877410
    zush12345
    Member

    I always get a kick out of people that whenever someone just remotely says something critical against their “gedolims” view,the first reaction is kofar beikar.Seriously?Thats the best you can do?

    Are you really so immature and stupid?I think the reason why these guys go so nuts is the fact that allowing a conversation would mean listening and acknowledging another opinion thus maybe even weakening their meager existences thus its just much easier to put on the ever so bullying line of “my gadol is bigger then your gadol”line.Way to go guys.Just do your kids a favor and save money for their therapy.

    #877411
    Shraga18
    Participant

    ZeesKite:

    “And I thought this was the Yeshiva World”

    There, unfortunately, is your mistake. It has become quite clear that a substantial number of CR posters

    1. stem from the MO community and not the Yeshiva community, or

    2. were perhaps at some point members of the yeshivish community, and for whatever reason have hashkafically moved away from it.

    These posters are freely being allowed to share their non-yeshivish hashkafos and opinions here, to the consternation of those who come here thinking this is a forum for people with Yshivish Hashkafos, mislead by the “yeshiva” in the site’s name.

    Of course, whether according to yeshivish hashkafa there even should BE such a site is a different question, but that’s not the current topic.

    #877412
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “It’s interesting that those with a filter think it was a huge success and those without a filter or who have read the coverage from unfiltered sources believe it was unsuccessful,”

    Hmmmm. I have filters installed, pre asifa. I’m not sure how successful or unsuccessful the asifa was since I don’t know what the objective of the organizers was and if it was met, but I can say that on a personal level I was disappointed and inspired at the same time. Disappointed because due to language barrier I didn’t understand a lot of what was being said and what I did understand was not something new to me. On the other hand being together with 40000 yidden, davening and saying tehillim with them is by itself a positive experience and a good mussar shmooze to boot is always a good thing. As for the filters. I don’t find them to be limiting my knowledge in any way. I don’t feel like I’m living under some brutal regime that is surpressing me in any way. I view the filter as a matter of common sense to help keep certain things off my screen. In no way does it impede the things I must do online.

    #877413
    Chulent
    Member

    Sam, what eilu v’eilu? Please specify any rov on the record who supports unfiltered internet. I’ve heard of none.

    #877414
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    It’s interesting that those with a filter think it was a huge success and those without a filter or who have read the coverage from unfiltered sources believe it was unsuccessful, people were bullied into attending, the advertising was misleading and that the best part was the free danish. Seems to me that having a filter presents it’s own kind of danger as misinformation can easily be presented as fact to those who filter.

    Like this.

    #877415
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    And I thought this was the Yeshiva World, where Torah and Torah ideals rule supreme. I used to frequent another site, until I found that one very lacking in major Torah hashkafa issues. So I found this one, blessfully moderated, with a Torah mindset, Torah and Gedolei Torah in strict reverence.

    Must I leave this one too?

    Hagaon Haadir Posek Hador Ba’al Shevet Halevi HaRav Shmuel Wosner shlit”a says yes. Will you follow the GADOL or your Boich S’vara?

    Are you a hero or a slacker?

    #877416
    Naysberg
    Member

    .

    #877417
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Sam2, I’m sorry I didn’t hear of an opposing veiw of Gedolei Torah who proclaimed going to the event was assur, no problem whatsoever with the internet, look where you want, do what you want etc. I thought the 500+ Gedolim in attendance were a unanimous voice. Sorry I didn’t go to Korach’s 200,000,000,000 strong demonstration, opposing Klal Yisroel’s attempt at preserving it’s Kedusha.

    #877418
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Exactly how is it mocking Gedolim that the Oilim doesnt speak Yiddish and cant sit down for 4 hours of speeches in Yiddish by speakers you could barely understand even if you did speak Yiddish fluently.

    How is it Keferia that people came out of the Asifa totally unclear what the message was, there was the message that the internet is ok with a filter and the next speaker banned the internet entirely calling it the Chochma of Behamos.

    #877419
    Guter yid
    Participant

    Zeeskite, what a wonderful article!

    ZD, I’ve realized that for what ever reason you’ve been bashing out at this asifa from day one, so obviously u have an agenda..

    The people that came did it voluntary, there wss no mashgiach from any mosad or shul to check if anybody was there, there’s no way to sift thru 60,000 people, so the lie of being “pressured’ to come is void and null, the emotions on most atendees was very obvious, and the results of this massive kinus leshaim shomayim is bringing unbelievable results at an unexpected scale.

    Ashrecho yisroel!

    #877420
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    ZK

    Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky was against the Asifa

    One of the Satmar Rav’s was against the Asifa

    Rav Mandelbaum in Lakewood as against the Asifa and mocked it

    #877421
    Chulent
    Member

    Rav Shmuel and the Satmar Rebbe in KY both supported the asifa, despite not being there. And Yankie Mandelbaum is not a “Rav”.

    #877422
    msseeker
    Member

    “And I thought this was the Yeshiva World”

    And I realized this is mostly a moshav leitzim, not in a clownish way, but in the fullest sense of Rashi’s pshat on ?????? ???? ?? ???.

    #877423

    “Sorry I didn’t go to Korach’s 200,000,000,000 strong demonstration, opposing Klal Yisroel’s attempt at preserving it’s Kedusha.”

    Zeeskite – 200 billion? Are you sure that’s the correct number?

    #877424
    Sam2
    Participant

    Zees: Once again, you took a point and turned it to the extreme. How does being against the Asifa (which many Rabbonim were) or Mattiring unfiltered internet (which a few Rabbonim have done) extend to looking at whatever you want or doing whatever you want? Your argument changes from one of logic to one of mockery when you do that.

    #877425
    Todros Gimpel
    Participant

    To all those who seem so very threatened by the whole internet filter business.

    Unless you are addicted to sites that you shouldn’t be going to, the only explanation I can think of, is that you feel that your parnasah is under threat.

    Which line of business requires you to rely on 100% unfiltered internet access?

    I myself am a web site programmer who needs to access many different sites and I use a fully approved frum filtered ISP without problems.

    #877426
    Chulent
    Member

    Sam: Please name any or all rabbis on the record as opposing the asifa or permitting unfiltered internet. I believe you will find NONE on the record as such.

    #877427
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I do find it interesting that those who claim Ahavas yisroel use personal attacks against valid critiques of the Asifa instead of answering those critiques directly

    #877428

    “The people that came did it voluntary, there wss no mashgiach from any mosad or shul to check if anybody was there, there’s no way to sift thru 60,000 people, so the lie of being “pressured’ to come is void and null, the emotions on most atendees was very obvious, and the results of this massive kinus leshaim shomayim is bringing unbelievable results at an unexpected scale.”

    Guter Yid – You may want your comment to be true and that’s very idealistic, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false. The definition of intellectual dishonesty is – when one avoids an honest, deliberate and comprehensive approach to a matter because it may introduce an adverse effect on personally and professionally held views and beliefs.

    1) It was very well publicized both before and after the event that immense pressure was being exerted on people to attend and purchase tickets through shuls and schools and as many people arrived on buses chartered through these institutions it’s quite easy to determine who showed up and who stayed home. I’ve run massive, large scale events, tickets don’t sell out in a week without an outside influence. People are way too busy and overscheduled to drop everything on a moments notice.

    2) Was it 50,000 or 60,000? Even the numbers that I see don’t jive….and an additional 10,000 is a pretty big whopper.

    3) How can you possibly know what the results are? Did you take a post asifa survey? Did you factor in the people who walked away disgusted and disillusioned, the negative mainstream press, as well as those who bought filters (is a filter a benchmark of success? Again you may want to believe that the results were “unbelievable” and on an “unexpected scale”, but you can’t back that up with facts, because the data to prove that doesn’t exist.

    #877429

    “To all those who seem so very threatened by the whole internet filter business. Unless you are addicted to sites that you shouldn’t be going to, the only explanation I can think of, is that you feel that your parnasah is under threat.”

    Todros Gimpel – I’m addicted to access to knowledge, so that I can use the brain that Hashem gave me to form opinions, not addicted to any specific websites. I’m absolutely 100% pro filters for children and teenagers. I believe adults should be treated as adults and should be encouraged and trained to behave responsibly, not potched and punished. I’m absolutely against people being held hostage and manipulated into purchasing tickets and attending a poorly executed $3 million infomercial for specific companies to sell a product. I am pro using that money and manpower for chessed. I’m opposed to the fact that only a narrow point of view, vilifying everything on the internet was presented, rather than an even handed approach that showed that the gedolim actually understand the complexity of the internet and it’s uses in day to day life for the average person. I’m not threatened by the filter,I’m turned off that the internet issue is being approached in a very heavy handed way and antiquated way.

    #877430
    musser zoger
    Participant

    ZK Please try to avoid using your Hebrew fonts. Some of us can’t read Hebrew.

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