Tagged: Who is Bibi
May 3, 2022 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #2082609
It seems most don’t know how much
he has protected us before becoming
Israel Defense Forces
Years of service
War of Attrition
Yom Kippur War
Most of us would not make it into Sayeret
Matakal it’s a top IDF unit
They risk their life’s regularly for Yidden
We all owe them tremendous gratitudeMay 4, 2022 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #2082881physicsyidParticipant
I believe Naftali Bennett was also in Sayeret Matkal.May 4, 2022 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #2082912yuda the maccabiParticipant
and how many times does he endanger our lives every time he is mechalel shabbosMay 4, 2022 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #2082915May 4, 2022 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #2082916akupermaParticipant
And think how he could have protected Klal Yisrael if he took all that ability and energy (discounting the energy spent on improper activities), and spent it on Torah and Mitsvos (and avoiding the many inappropriate activities for which he is infamous). Yiddishkeit is what protects us in the long run, and bashing a few annoying goyim is at most a short-term, and often a counter-productive, solution.May 4, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2082930
There seems to be a global phenomena in favor of “strongmen” with lots of political and moral baggage. In EY, the anti-netanyahu coalition overplayed its hand and belatedly discovered that even the secular population still had a strong preference to retain certain iconic elements of “yiddeshkeit” in the governance of the medinah.May 4, 2022 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #2082945
If so, he’s no more deserving of honor than a baby.May 4, 2022 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2082947commonsaychelParticipant
@George HW Bush was a War Hero and so was John McCain, Bob Dole and many othersMay 4, 2022 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #2082941
Marxist, no he’s not a tinok shenishba. He’s a rasha Mechallel Shabbos treif fressor.May 4, 2022 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #2083011May 4, 2022 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #2083056
Marxist, he knows about Torah Judaism. That makes him absolutely not a tinok shenishba.May 4, 2022 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #2083063
Please provide a source that the level of knowledge he has disqualifies him as a tinok shenishba.May 4, 2022 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #2083073
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach said that non-frum Jews nowadays are not in the category of Tinok Shenishba. If they (a) know they are Jewish, and (b) know that they have the option of being religious, and (c ) the government will not persecute them if they become religious, then, he said, if they say they still do not want to become religious, they are no longer in the category of Tinokos Shenishbu.May 4, 2022 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #2083091
You and I both know that Rav Shlomo Zalman’s shittah on this is not the one that is generally followed and the adoption of his criteria would probably cause the majority of non-frum Jews to be disqualified as tinok shineshba.May 4, 2022 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2083100
The chazon ish disagreed wirh rav shlomo zalman. I don’t know what he would say today that there are so many more charedim and lehavdil datiimMay 4, 2022 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #2083137
> so many more charedim and lehavdil datiim
this hate just most stop! Charedim may also be dati.May 5, 2022 12:19 am at 12:19 am #2083139
Nobody should look down on people who risked their lives whatever level of observance they are, whether they are a prime minister or a stam tzahal soldier from Russia or Ukraine. Maybe people who are at their level may opine.
Also, in addition to Bibi and his brother Yoni, his father has a remarkable insightful book about Abarbanel where he ponders issues of Jewish leadership. The book concludes that Abarbanel missed the moment when Spanish Jews became endangered and, after that, his efforts to prevent expulsion did not help. Did Abarbanel fail, he asks. Answer is – no, as Abarbanel continued visiting and expiring exiles after that and made a great contribution in saving Spanish Jewry after the expulsion.
I read this book when Bibi was the leader in the difficult post-Oslo times, and it felt like the father’s book was about the issues that his son will confront.
editedMay 5, 2022 1:19 am at 1:19 am #2083234
Why is risking one’s life, which he would have done to save goyim too, any more important than keeping shabbos?
Does Hashem tell us in the Torah to risk our lives for others as the highest form of heroism? Isn’t there a machlokes if one is even at all permitted to do so?
Isn’t fighting the true enemy, the yatzer hora, a greater achievement?May 5, 2022 1:19 am at 1:19 am #2083231
Fact is he and his family have risked
their lives for other Yidden
Makes them deserve Hakoras HatovMay 5, 2022 8:26 am at 8:26 am #2083252
Hatzolo go out in their cars EVERY
Shabbos to rescue these so called
None frum sub humans
It’s a disgrace to refer to Yidden
like some of the comments above
They have a holy neshomo more
Holy than the kodesh Kodoshim
Which we are not allowed to build
on Shabbos but we are allowed to try
save a Yid on ShabbosMay 5, 2022 8:28 am at 8:28 am #2083255
Yes Naftali was in Sayeret Matkal
So are many others
We are talking Bibi what’s your point
pleaseMay 5, 2022 8:29 am at 8:29 am #2083258lakewhutParticipant
UJM go join a lev tahor cultMay 5, 2022 8:29 am at 8:29 am #2083259
Ask your question to Hatzolo they
drive on Shabbos every week to try
save a life
Or maybe I don’t understand your pointMay 5, 2022 8:30 am at 8:30 am #2083260
Marxist, many Poskim (Rav Moshe among them) hold that even if someone was brought up not-frum, if he is exposed to Yiddishkeit for a while, it causes him to lose his status of tinok she’nishbah.May 5, 2022 8:31 am at 8:31 am #2083263
When you refer to Bibi as a fressor
are you saying he eats treif without
table manners?May 5, 2022 8:31 am at 8:31 am #2083264
If it’s only Torah that protects us
then why didn’t we sit down and learn
instead of going to war which occurred
all over the TNACH ?
Surly Avrohom Moshe Yehoshoa Dovid
all knew the power of Torah but they all
went to warMay 5, 2022 8:32 am at 8:32 am #2083265
@yuda the maccabi
You ask how many times he risks
Pray tell how AL TODIN fits in to your
Also when a frum yid inadvertently
is mechalel Shabbos in let’s say the
kitchen due to lack of learning hilchos
Who are you me or anyone to say who
is worse ?May 5, 2022 11:29 am at 11:29 am #2083397
Lashon, i never said chilul shabbos is not allowed for saving one’s life – it not only is allowed, it’s necessary and one who refuses to be mechalel shabbos for pikuach nefesh is considered a shofech damim.
However, al pi din we would not be mechalel shabbos normally for a person who does not keep shabbos, because the rationale of “break one shabbos so that he will keep many more” does not spply.
For goyim there’s literally no reason in the world to, but hatzolah does because if they don’t there will be hatred among goyim and they will not save us. This was a takanah of the vaad arba aratzos in the times of the shach.May 5, 2022 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #2083538
Unfortunately religious Jews today are too righteous to take on necessary roles. If not for hilonim, who will protect the state of israel? Who will run the country? Withought getting into what’s ideal, looking at the current state of am yisrael, with all of its segments, we can see clearly how each type of Jew plays a vital role in protecting Am Yisrael, ensuring it’s ability to flourish into the future. I’m talking about from hilonim to haredim and from reform to ultra orthodox. Look at the people who come to the defense of Jews on a daily basis, for the army to watch groups, to social media personalities. How we relate to other types of Jews in our personal lives aside, people like Netanyahu are certainly heroes of am yisrael, and ultimately contributors on a high level to the advancement of Torah.May 5, 2022 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #2083609
Multiple MKs in Likud, UTJ and other right wing politicians state that they will never again serve in a coalition headed by Bibi, not because he eats treifus,is mechalel shabbos, etc. Its because he is an unprincipled chronic liar, is abusive to those who disagree with him and arguably enriches himself and family at public expense. And thats coming from those who share his right-wing policy positions on most issues.May 5, 2022 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #2083618
User – who put us in a situation where we need an army? Let them take care of it; we couldn’t care less if arabs ran the placeMay 5, 2022 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #2083620
If they were the kind of arabs that were before zionism that isMay 5, 2022 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #2083666
The big IF.
All I’m asking is to look at the big picture, how have we benefitted. That’s the way Hakarat Hatov works. Looking at the details you’ll find a reason not to thank anyone. “G-d created me, of course he should provide for me.” This thread is not about what we think about Netanyahu, it’s about owing him gratitude. Failing to recognize the good people do is another form of sinat hinam.May 5, 2022 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #2083703
Marxist, Reb Moshe Feinstein and Rav Shlomo Zalman’s opinions regarding Tinok Shenishba is, in fact, the default normative Psak Klal Yisroel is noheg to follow. If that means (and it certainly does) that the majority of non-Orthodox Jews today are not Tinokos Shenishbu, that’s exactly what it means and is.May 5, 2022 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #2083732
Without a poll of Orthodoxy today, we can’t really know what the normative psak is. However, my experience has indicated to me that most frum people consider most non-Orthodox today tinok shenishbu. Including Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva.May 5, 2022 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2083742
Your view is colored by the PR from the Kiruv professionals, who have every incentive, and do loudly, proclaim such views. But the Gedolei Rabbonim and the large majority of mainstream Roshei Yeshivos have not espoused that. As evidenced by Reb Moshe and Reb Shlomo Zalman.May 5, 2022 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #2083758
it is not that difficult to evaluate the level of tinakyous of non-O Jews – just talk to them and see whether they quote Karl Marx or JTS or they are simply clueless about Torah. In my humble experience, it is 1:10 in favor of clueless, but maybe my contacts are too educated… And it is not because I am such a kind soul judging everyone ltzad zechus; I’d love to have some high quality apikoires to discuss things but they are rare sightings.May 5, 2022 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #2083769
“But the Gedolei Rabbonim and the large majority of mainstream Roshei Yeshivos have not espoused that.”
Do you know this from a survey or just your general experience within the frum world?. I’m assuming the latter. My experience is different so I can’t really argue with you much here.
” whether they quote Karl Marx or JTS”
What does quoting Marx have to do with being knowledgeable about Torah?May 5, 2022 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #2083771
Ujm… sorry, but the chazon ish is just as (actually, more, because he was earlier) big of a towering figure as rav shlomo zalman.May 5, 2022 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #2083776
UJM, don’t be so quick to write people off during this time of year. There is nothing heroic about drastic statements. If there was ever a time to be posek Halacha l’kaf zechut it’s now. Koah D’hetera Adif. There are other opinions.
Also, there is a reason kiruv Rabbis are louder than the cut throat opinions publicly. Im sure you can figure it out.May 5, 2022 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #2083783
Just curious, in your experience within the frum world, do you find that people (including Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva you’ve encountered) generally consider non-Orthodox today tinok shinshba?May 5, 2022 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #2083792
@Marxist > What does quoting Marx have to do with being knowledgeable about Torah?
Sorry, did not mean you personally. I meant to say that some old-time anti-Torah Jews had an ideology, such as Marxism, current ones usually do not and not oppose anything. You are right, even someone who knows Das Kapital b’alpe can still be an ignoramus, but at least, he was a dangerous ignoramus.
This “yeridas ha doros” is one of the interpretations of arba banim in Hagada: first generation – chacham, second – rebels, third – not sure why his father rebeled, fourth – has nothing to talk about, fifth – disappears unless we put him back into first. Note that this 4th+ generations are far removed from the original rebels.May 6, 2022 12:43 am at 12:43 am #2083756
Gadol, similar comment – the gentleman has lots of zehuyot both in the Army and in world politics. I can’t say whether he borrowed some cigars or betrayed coalition partners, this is one big mess there, but you sound like you simply disagree with him and ready to throw any argument at it. We somehow find this permissible in the American context between a real estate developer and a senator from Du Pont. If if that is not asur, I don’t think we should use same brush with Israeli issues and people.May 6, 2022 12:46 am at 12:46 am #2083808
Marx; good question. I’ve never met a rosh yeshiva who has said that American frei are not to be treated as tinokos shenishbu.
Israelis are where it gets thorny. Some go with rav shloml zalman and say that they have ample exposure in our time. Others go with the chazon ish, that we’re on a very low level of torah and can’t properly teach it to the point where one is no longer a tinok shenishba simply by hearing about the torah and seeing us keep it. The majority go with the chazon ish, in my experiences, with some (mostly brisker) either going with rav shlomo zalman or saying it’s a safek.May 6, 2022 7:43 am at 7:43 am #2083823
Avira, the psak of the Chazon Ish is a big shvere kulah — according to him. even if somebody grew up frum and does aveiros (any aveiros), he is to be treated as a tinok she’nishbah.
User 176, one is to pasken Halochah alibah de’emes. It has nothing to do with the time of the year! Koach de’heteirah adif? So, according to you, if one opinion says an action is chillul Shabbos, and another – that it is okay, we should pasken le’kukah? Chas ve’sholom.May 6, 2022 10:29 am at 10:29 am #2083871
I am not a posek. Halacha is not always clear cut. When a posek is faced with an ambiguous Halacha and one way will make thousands mechalel Shabbat and the other will make them in line with Halacha, a Talmud Chacham who cares about am yisrael should choose the latter. How often do we see the mishna berura quote a minhag and working hard to justify it within halacha.May 6, 2022 11:26 am at 11:26 am #2083902
AAQ: If you review the archives, I’ve never been a big Biden fan although I clearly prefer him to his predecessor. With Netanyahu, its a lot more than a few cigars. While he is wildly adored by a large segment of the right, there is a substantial and growing body of politicians across the right who simply revile him and won’t serve in a coalition he heads. Thats not to say he won’t find 61 votes since he historically has been able to buy off individual politicians with promises of cabinet positions, subsidies to their constituents etc.May 6, 2022 11:27 am at 11:27 am #2083903
User176, you are so wrong. When it comes to be melamed zechus, one needs to melamed zechus, but when paskening Halochah, one is to pasken the truth!May 6, 2022 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #2083922
Mdd, he isn’t giving license to do aveiros… That’s a misinterpretationMay 6, 2022 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #2083923
Rav hirsch held that german jewry were tinokos shenishbu in his time too
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.