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Do you think it is wrong to spend thousands of dollars for brand name products such as a Gucci pocketbook when you can basically get the same product for cheaper and give the thousands of dollars saved to tzedaka or to support Torah learning?
the short answer is its really not your business how other people spend their money. Most likely if they have 1,000 Gucci bags, they are giving more to tzedaka then you even imagine.
If you’re asking for yourself, i think the way you asked the question shows how you feel about it..
Why dont you focus on using your own body and money the way Hashem desires?
great. maybe the next thing you can work on is being dan lekaf zechus??
Daniel: Is there any Lav being violated or Issur being Mevutal here? No. So your use of Kol Yisrael Areivim is a misapplication.
Well obviously your are judging people who spend money on brand name items- how can you deny you’re not???
I just want to point out that Halacha says you should give minimum 10% but maximum 20%.. There are many people out there who even if they give 50% would still have left over.. and then what they choose to spend it on is their own choice and no one else’s business.
Daniel Rosen:
I agree with you that it is better to give one’s money to worthy causes. But it could be that someone needs to wear brand names in order to feel respectable in their social group.
But there are also people who just want to be the most stylish of their group. Some people need that, but for some people, it is a waste of money. Is that what you are talking about?
(mods, please delete my previous comment)
“The reason why a Gucci bag differs from a nice steak is that you are not spending money on pleasure: you are wasting money on status to put yourself over your brother (or in this case sister).”
Disagree with this completely.Many people own designer items that dont even have an outer tag- what do you say about that?
If I buy a lexus but remove the logo- thats okay?? even tho ur original claim that the money is being wasted if its not going to tzedaka, and NOT about people trying to be above one another…
And YES I do think that Rabbis telling people how much to spend on their weddings is completely ridiculous and authoritarian.
DR, you are making an assumption ” you can basically get the same product”. You may think it us the same, I do too. But to them it is not the same. Period. This is the answer
Why assume that they are purchasing the bag for the Gucci label perhaps Gucci makes a higher quality product than a handbag you would buy at Kmart and therefore it will last longer and perhaps Gucci guarantees the quality of the bag and replaces it if it tears.
Why assume that they are purchasing the bag for the Gucci label perhaps Gucci makes a higher quality product than a handbag you would buy at Kmart and therefore it will last longer and perhaps Gucci guarantees the quality of the bag and replaces it if it tears.
This. I have had “brand name” products that have been totally worn out, and sent back to be “fixed” and they did so without complaint (as wear & tear is under warrenty). Another time I regretted not buying the brand name, as the “generic” wore out way quicker than the brand & I ended up paying more. Sometimes its worthwhile to spend the extra dollar now and save later.
Daniel Rosen: I suggest that you, who knows the Da’as of why people do things, should complain. Myself, who is trying to be Dan LKaf Zechus and doesn’t claim to be a “Yodeah Machashavos”, will leave it alone.
Daniel: Care to source your assertion that you can apply it to “Hashkafa” issues and therefore tell people whatever you want? I find it incredibly arrogant of you to say, “Well God said that technically this is allowed but I think it looks bad so I’m going to publicly say it’s wrong because I know better than G-d.”
Women’s shoes.
Almost never have outer tags or a way to distinguish them as a specific brand.
But many women- especially frum- will buy “waste money” expensive shoes.
what do you think their motivation for dropping $500 on a pair of shoes that no one will ever know are designer???
and maybe if your whole issue to begin with was that you dont think people should wear brands because they are trying to up their status you should have just said so, instead of trying to make it a whole halachic thing that they arent giving to tzedaka which is just false (in 99% of cases).
I personally tend to get my juicy couture and other designer items from either a good will store, or a gemach. Maybe that is how some people get their designer items. If I could, I would get north face stuff from a gemach as well.
When it comes to tuna, brand name is better. Just ask Charlie the Tuna.
you’re actually not making me feel guilty or embaressed, because I grew up very poor and dont own a single “very expensive” item. But I’m not suprised that you assumed that anyone who would disagree with you was wealthy themselves.
sw33t: Exactly! it is none of our business how people spend their money. One has no right to make cheshbonos for other people- and who really cares?
Honestly, if someone can afford it why not? We have one life to live and who said they are not giving Tzedaka in the same proportions that you are? or even more?
Just because you see them with a Gucci bag it doesn’t mean they aren’t donating a lot of money . Even so , it is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, us simple people.
B) You can really do without it and can give more money to tzedaka but simply do not care to give more and are content with the amount you have already given.
or you already give the maximum amount that halacha says you can give…
Why in the OP did you only give an example of a women’s product men also buy brand name things.
This thread is moving too fast for me- im replying to things that are there one minute, gone the next.. etc.. so i’m just going to reiterate my first point, and be done with it.
the short answer is its really not your business how other people spend their money.
Thing is, you don’t know where she got that Gucci bag or why that woman is cholishing for $500 Manolo shoes. They could be gifts. They could have an uncle in “the biz.” Hullo: thrift shops?
Instead of focusing on designer “items” the bigger picture is how we conduct our simchas. Any way to cut down on the ostentatiousness and costs there? Who is competing with whom? Why the need for the “lavishness”?
It seems that each NY wedding I’ve been to is the equivalent of 2 weddings out of town where you come to a wedding, have a cookie and soda at the bedeken then eat the meal after the chuppah.
The shmorg. People come famished from work and swoop down on the food like vultures. Why does anyone expect a full dinner… before a dinner?
The music. Why do you need a 4 piece band that plays so loudly that your eardrums bleed? Because all the other weddings have the 4 piece band?
The service. White glove service, table service. Buffet is good enough.
And Chinese auctions: what’s the need for that? Each one more over the top than the other? Just give the money to tzedakah outright!!! Why rent the hall? Why be “lavish”? Why have all the glitz and glamor? These charity events have turned into shop-a-holic vacations!
Me? I’m not wasting an extra penny on a logo. If it gives superior quality, I’m all for it. That includes aftercare and service in the event it needs repair or replacement. Otherwise, I’ll meet you in Aisle 9 at K-mart.
This whole thread is a lack of “farginin yenim” It is absolutely none of anyone’s business what anyone spends there money on! By the way the last time I looked at any beautiful new buildings of Shules or schools, my name wasn’t on it! The people you are referrring to, may give alot of money to tzedaka, which is also none of your business.
I just was not brought up that way, to look how others spend or what they have.Live and let live.
“This whole thread is a lack of “farginin yenim” It is absolutely none of anyone’s business what anyone spends there money on! By the way the last time I looked at any beautiful new buildings of Shules or schools, my name wasn’t on it! The people you are referrring to, may give alot of money to tzedaka, which is also none of your business.
I just was not brought up that way, to look how others spend or what they have.Live and let live.”
beautiful.
Daniel: Show me where Mesilas Yesharim says it’s your business how others spend their money.
Daniel: Um, that says stay away from your neighbors’ worldly goods, not tell them to get rid of theirs. Also, Prishus isn’t for everyone. Nor is there an obligation of it. Not do you have a right to enforce it on anyone else.
“For when one regards their elegance and dignity, it is impossible that his lust will not be awakened to desire these things. And even if he will not permit his evil inclination to conquer him, he will, in any event, not escape the battle and its dangers.”
Seems to me this alone is a raya why people who buy luxry Gucci shoes and luxry cars should be rebuked. They will undoubtedly cause others to either spend more hours at work to attain such vanities or engender within them and their wives and children envy. Mesilas Yesharim says it is IMPOSSIBLE for it not to. So if not in order to give more tzedaka, this alone is of sufficient reason.
Sounds like jealousy to me????
Daniel, you might enjoy reading the essay “Our Generation” by R’ Itamar Schwartz, the author of Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh. It’s on the Bilvavi website.
I don’t think even Eisav ate in fancy restaurants! 🙂
You’re welcome! This is not related to the topic of the post, but I highly recommend the Bilvavi sefer itself, which can be read for free on the website. It’s a very interesting and engaging approach to one’s individual avodas Hashem. As far as I recall, the sefer doesn’t really deal with issues of wealth and consumption, as does the essay I mentioned.
sw33t:
your “live and let live” attitude is responsible for much destruction in klal yisroel and is in apposition to what gedolim have been trying to change for decades.
Your statement “And YES I do think that Rabbis telling people how much to spend on their weddings is completely ridiculous and authoritarian.” gives me an incite into your lack of reverence for our gedolim.
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