Cheating

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  • #1542568
    Ytt
    Participant

    Is it ok to cheat on a New York State regent

    #1542571
    VSZJessdtg
    Member

    Of course not.

    Why is this even a question?

    #1542697
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    when I was in HS, one the regents was canceled one year because the exam was stolen and the answers published on the front page of one of the NY dailies. The smiling face of the yeshiva student responsible also filled the front pages and made a huge chilul Hashem.
    The answer then and now is NO.

    #1542778
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    R’ Moshe Feinstein wrote a teshuva on this (Igros Moshe CM 2, 30), where he said it’s assur. Here is part of the teshuva:

    This is forbidden not only by the law, but also by the Torah. And this is not only misleading, which is in itself forbidden as [the Talmudic sage] Shmuel states . . . that it is forbidden to mislead [any other person], so much the more here that he misleads everybody. It is actual stealing, for when he wants later on to get a job, work in a trade to make a living, in most cases [the employer] wants someone who excelled in his studies. And they will see his test results that he has a good score, and on that [false] basis he will be taken on, and this is actual stealing.

    And don’t claim that even if that is the basis for his being hired, this is really an irrelevant basis and therefore it’s permissible to lie. First of all, even if there is no real basis for insisting on [good grades], this employer at any rate insists on it and so his hiring is null and void; and in any case it is always forbidden to lie even if there is no [unfair] advantage gained. . . Furthermore, if [the employer] knew he had lied he wouldn’t rely on him for anything, and he will [unfairly] cause others to be suspect. . . Furthermore, when people insist on this there is certainly a valid basis, for there are certainly things that someone expert in his studies will do better in business and commerce. . . This also develops habits of not knowing what is studied and habituates to laziness.

    #1543136
    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Would u be ok if you found out that your general practitioner cheated his way through medical school or better yet , would u be ok if u found out that your rosh yeshiva cheated on his semicha test?

    #1543567
    Midwest2
    Participant

    From what I heard a couple of decades ago in New York, some yeshivos were actually helping the students cheat, helping with answers and so forth. The reason given is that because it was being given by a non-Jewish government it was OK to cheat.

    Of course this is not permitted by halacha, and can create a really horrible hillul HaShem, But there are people who will be extremely m’dakdek in issues of bein adam l’makom and dealing with other Jews, who think that anything goes outside.

    So this question isn’t as bizarre as it first sounds. There were some misguided people who thought it was permitted or even a mitzvah 🙁

    If someone is trying to tell you that it’s permitted, tell them it’s not Tzarist Russia any more, and if they continue to bug you, ask your rav. He’ll tell you it’s forbidden and you can pass it on to your confused friend.

    #1543598
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Cheating is wrong, whether it’s the teacher who is cheating or the students.

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