Children at a Second Marriage

The sefer Minhagei Vermeiza (Worms) explains that children do not attend a parent’s second marriage. This is because the children’s presence is a reminder of the first spouse, and could thus mar the joy of the occasion.

Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, shlita, was asked about this custom. He gave the following explanation: Children have an obligation to respect their parents even after the parents have passed away. Attending the marriage of a surviving parent would be disrespectful to the deceased parent.

FWIW, I was at my father’s remarriage. However, the following facts should be pertinent to my decision to go:

1. My parents are divorced — B”H both are still alive.

2. My father is not frum and would not have understood that I not attend because of a minhag. There is also the fact that he wanted me there — and kibud av is min haTorah.

2a. My father and I were just getting over a three-year period of alienation that, to this day, I deeply regret. Not attending his wedding might have jeopardized that greatly.

3. My mother did not object to my going — on the contrary — she and my father were on good terms by then and encouraged us to go (interestingly enough, she and my step-mother are very good friends now).

So, after all was said and done, I decided to go.

The Wolf

i have an uncle that married a divorcee, and the children were there for the whole wedding- except the chuppa- that is for the shmorg, reception, pictures, meal, dancing, mitzva tanz- but for the chuppa they waited outside the hall…

oomis1105 – the “he” that you are quoting is Maran Harav Elyashiv, shli”ta. You quote him, and then proceed to say “the converse could also be true.” I don’t know, but I think that when one hears a p’sak from the Godol Hador, that should suffice.

A Rav gives p’sak based on the information that is provided,

2 very different people can go to 1 Rav with the same shayla and get 2 very different answers, right?

Right… but it’s possible that in other cases, the advice may not apply too. What if the deceased parent gave permission before passing away? In other words, you can’t just say “a gadol hador said it, that’s that,” as the p’sak may only apply to specific cases (just as it would not have applied to mine).

The Wolf

Wolf, Just wondering, why could you not have gone to everything but the chuppa?

If I did that, I would have missed most of it. Keep in mind that this wasn’t your typical frum wedding. It was a very small affair in a relative’s back yard with a very small crowd. It’s not like there were 400 people and a four-hour party to follow.

In any event, I refer you back to the point where my father wanted me there — heck, he asked me to hold one of the poles of the chuppah — and kibbud av, IMHO, clearly trumps any other consideration (except, possibly kibbud am — but, as I pointed out earlier, that wasn’t an issue by me). My father is not frum and he would not have understood if I told him “there a custom not to attend…” and it also might have jeopardized our reconciliation, which was at a delicate stage then.

The Wolf

Joseph,

If I recall correctly, that only applies if they are still married. It does not apply if they are divorced.

The Wolf

At the end of the day, it should be the child’s choice (unless a Rav explicitly prohibits one way or the other).

A Halachic authority should of course be consulted in all cases…80

There is a minhag not to attend the chuppah, but as far as I know, that does not mean that a child who wants to attend should be stopped from doing so. I know of plenty of people who have attended a parent’s chuppah and plenty who have not.

A Halachic authority should of course be consulted in all cases…80

I didn’t attend my mother’s chuppah because it was too painful for me and I was very thankful to have the minhag to rely on; when my father remarried years later, although I would have been ok with attending the chuppah (I was older, more mature, and happy that both my parents were happy), I once again relied on the minhag so as not to cause pain to my mother by doing for my father what I couldn’t bring myself to do for her.

Every situation is different; also, be aware that unless the children are adults, it is VERY unlikely that they will be happy for the marrying parent. Divorce or death usually doesn’t make much of a difference in that respect. The day of remarriage is like the day of the divorce/death all over again, and is EXTRAORDINARILY painful for the child. While the child must respect the parent, their decision, and their spouse, they CANNOT be forced to feel good or happy about the situation.

These are YOUR experiences and thank you for the insight, but, as you said, you should not generalize for everyone’s complex circumstances…80

I don’t know, but I think that when one hears a p’sak from the Godol Hador, that should suffice. “

note oomis, as per our previous discussion, you ended the above with quote marks but put none at the beginning…80

“Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, shlita, was asked about this custom. He gave the following EXPLANATION (my emphasis): ” (direct quote from Artchill)

Cholent….My understanding of what Artchill posted is not that it was R’ Elayshiv’s Shlitah’s P’SAK, but his explanation (p’sak is your word). There is a huge difference between the two. I would hope you were not implying that I was disrespecting the Rov,as I most certainly was not. I merely commented that it could be looked at in either way, if one looked at the kibud Av aspect for the live parent. At the end of the day, so far all I have heard is that this is a MINHAG, not a halacha.

oomis1105 – I wasn’t sure what you were implying. You seemed to be giving your own take… You quoted Rav Elyashuv’s reasoning, and then wrote, “the converse could also be true.” So, while I’m sure you din’t mean any disrespect – it sounded that way. But, thanks for the clarification.

BTW, at the end of the day – Minhag Yisroel Torah.

“oomis1105 – I wasn’t sure what you were implying. You seemed to be giving your own take… You quoted Rav Elyashuv’s reasoning, and then wrote, “the converse could also be true.” So, while I’m sure you din’t mean any disrespect – it sounded that way. But, thanks for the clarification.”

Nope, I was quoting Artchill, who described what R’ Elyashiv said as an EXPLANATION, not as a p’sak. I therefore offered my own observation that it could just as easily be explained in the other direction, that this could also be viewed in terms of showing respect to the LIVING parent. So the converse COULD also make sense. There was absolutely nothing disrespectful in what I said. If in fact R’ Elyashiv issued his p’sak on this matter and not just an explanation, then that is what we follow. But NO one has said it is a p’sak, and things can be explained in many different equally valid ways, which is why we say shivim panim l’Torah. I am glad you are clear on what I meant.

***EDITED***

I will direct you to the sources without spelling it out.

My appreciation for the following sources to A. Grossman in his Hasidot U’Mordot,Jewish European Women in the Middle Ages ,Chapter 12 (Hebrew)

Pesachim 112. and 112:,and Rashi

Yerushalmi Shabbos 10:5

Sefer Chassidim Margolies, 1019, page 561

A. Yasif, Ben-Sira, page 40

Sefer HaZohar, B, pages 202-203

It’s worth noting that Minhagei Vermeiza (p50-51) in fact says not to go to either the chupa or the seuda, but everyone quotes the minhag as talking about the chupa only. The same section of Minhagei Vermeiza also gives a lot of other minhagim that are not followed today at all.

I’ve seen weddings where the children stood behind a glass window, to see the chupa without technically being there. I’ve also seen many many second marriages where the children attended and played a significant role.

Many Rabbanim when asked will agree that the reasons do not apply in our generation, and in fact that children may be emotionally hurt (in some cases) by not attending. Also most parents nowadays do not object to their children attending a remarriage, and do not consider it a pgiya in their kavod, as long as it’s in the best interests of the children. As always a Rav must be consulted in all cases.

yeah maybe about first marriages! 😉

42: welcome back to the CR Zoo!