- This topic has 14 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 11 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
…or a world, for that matter?
?? ??? ?’ ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????
How about a little appreciation for the people who keep the world going?
They are appreciated.
Do you also appreciate the soldiers who keep Israel safe so that people can learn there in peace?
Yes.
Whom do you appreciate more?
The Nazis invaded Europe and killed people while Learning Torah.
Many times Torah alone does not protect.
The Lomdei Torah.
DY- Probably the soldiers. The Learners do more to keep the world going but the soldiers risk and sacrifice far more. I appreciate more a poor man who give as much as he can, then a rich man who give a lot more but only a small percentage of his wealth. The Lomdei Torah (or most of them at least) sacrifice the ability to live a life of gashmiyus in exchange for a life of ruchniyus. The soldiers stand on the front lines from where many don’t return.
DY: Both, in different ways. I don’t pretend to know the Cheshbonos of HKBH or what matters more to him, any individual soldier or Jew. They’re different. And appreciation gets shown differently.
It’s very different. Yeshiva bochurim learn, but they are engaged in something which (hopefully) gives them pleasure. I was at the YU Yom HaZikaron tekes yesterday, and there was a video presentation and an ex-soldier (current student) who spoke. In both, the message was loud and clear- the army was something they felt was important for them to have done, something that they’re glad they did, but that was difficult both physically and emotionally. The guy who spoke broke down crying as he was describing pulling fellow soldiers’ bodies out of a blown-up house in Gaza. That is not a comparative experience to that of yeshiva bochurim, and requires its own kind of appreciation.
Thisis an old machloket. See Sanhedrin 49a regarding David and Yoav.
Whom do you appreciate more?
The really serious learners, the soldiers, and then the vast majority in Israel who learn for social acceptance and to avoid the draft, in that order.
🙂
Also, who are “the learners”? Only the ones who are studying 24/7? What about the hesderniks who spend a significant amount of their army service in yeshiva and are learning as well when they’re on base? Saying “the” lomdei Torah would seem to make them seem like some sort of elite class, not everyone who contributes.
Mw13, I had though of that argument, but didn’t make it because it’s more complex than that.
Say two people gave you a ride (equal distances) on two separate occasions. Say Reuven was going there anyhow, but Shimon had to go out of his way and perhaps alter his schedule. Wouldn’t you owe more hakaras hatov to Shimon?
OTOH, say they expended the same effort, but one was a ride to the grocery, and one was a ride to your own child’s chasunah which you would had otherwise missed. Wouldn’t you owe more to one who gave you a ride to the chasunah?
Both the effort and your benefit factor in to how much hakaras hatov you owe. True, we owe Hashem infinite hakaras hatov despite His not incurring a loss, because everything we have is from Him, but that doesn’t mean when it comes to human beings effort doesn’t matter.
In reality, comparing hakaras hatov owed to lomdei Torah to that owed to soldiers is comparing apples to oranges.
You could perhaps argue that the benefit from the lomdei Torah outweighs the more literal mesiras nefesh of the soldiers, but in no way can you discount the mesiras nefesh of the soldiers in appreciating them.
Yes, he said they’re different. I presented one way in which they’re different.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.