February 22, 2017 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1227791JosephParticipant
Hey, that was my wedding gift to you, Meno!February 22, 2017 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #1227792
Thanks for sharing golfer ~ Such sweet memories 🙂
Reminds me of my grandmother, may her memory be a blessing, who baked the most delicious cookies that I was always trying to recreate on my own.
I’ve never seen the themes in person. The experience of Purim is changing.
Maybe commercialization of kashrus and the bustle of today’s life means that some MM won’t be eaten.
Still you also shared an interesting observation. Costumes, for one thing, are less expensive and maybe easier to come by, since Purim costumes go on sale November 1st (quote from an anonymous genius poster). Though one of the biggest things here imho is that Jews are dressing up their children before Purim and publicly driving around or walking around giving MM, when the rest of nonJewish society is going about their daily lives.
It’s amazingly beautiful and a blessing that we can be Jewish in the streets today, at least for the most part thank G-d <3
Although our great great great great grandparents of ble
ClippedFebruary 22, 2017 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1227793
Joseph, maybe yours was the one he kept.
On the other hand, the one he gave away might have been mine…February 22, 2017 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #1227794MDGParticipant
Most of the home made and much of the store bought MM that we receive go to my wife’s workplace open kitchen. Left out = hefker. Let them enjoy it.February 22, 2017 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #1227795
What did the Mods do to Lightb?
Was it something she said?
A technical difficulty?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone blocked mid-word.February 22, 2017 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1227796WinnieThePoohParticipant
In E”Y there are many different hashgachos, and different people often eat different ones. It may have nothing to do with trusting the other’s kashrus or not. I have seen people attach a note to homemade items indicating what hechsherim the ingredients had. Many people make sure to use only eida chareidis ingredients when cooking/baking for others- whether it is for MM, a party in gan or siyum in cheder, or a neighbor’s kiddush, since most people hold by Eida.February 22, 2017 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1227797🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
Joseph- does your great-uncle make his own wine as well or does he choose to trust the rav hamachshir on that? (question asked by satmar rebbe to someone)February 22, 2017 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1227798
Oh.February 22, 2017 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1227799Shopping613 🌠Participant
Insanity is what happened.February 22, 2017 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1227800
Oh, so it wasn’t just me who got clipped. So I don’t have to take it so personally… good to know..February 22, 2017 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1227801
Back to the subject at hand-
Is anyone here old enough to remember MM delivered on the sender’s plate, the recipient then removing the homemade delicacies and returning the plate?
(Full disclosure- I don’t actually remember seeing this, but I heard about it.)
Chaval al de’avdin…
This thread is making me miss the people no longer on my MM list. And their baking. We already know what the entree will be in Sukkas oro shel leviyasan, but somehow I think they’ll be the balabustas in charge of dessert.February 23, 2017 3:45 am at 3:45 am #1227802
Different chumros/kulos was built into my comment. I understand why somebody would refrain from eating other people’s meat dishes, because there is much more area for problems to arise and your standards may not be the next person’s standards.
But for cookies and cakes, there isn’t much area for my standards to be different than anybody else’s, besides for chodosh/yoshon, trumos and maaseros and cholov yisrael if they aren’t parve.February 23, 2017 11:13 am at 11:13 am #1227803
Shopping613: Lol 🙂February 23, 2017 11:19 am at 11:19 am #1227804
LU: Yepp you are not the only one who got clipped 🙂
shebbesonian: Isn’t the kitchen also a kashrut concern?
Even if someone cannot get too much wrong in baking, especially pareve, I thought that sometimes it is trusting the kitchen that poses problems.
If someone who doesn’t keep Cholov Yisroel on a daily basis AND only bakes Cholov Yisroel Purim treats, is it still considered Cholov Yisroel if the kitchen is Cholov Stam?
Thank youFebruary 23, 2017 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #1227805
Lightb, it’s great having you here, and I don’t mean to offend by giving you the same advice again and again. I’ll take a guess a lot of my posts go unread so you might not have heard this from me before?–
The CR can be a fun place. Or a waste of time. Or a distraction. Or whatever you make of it.
The CR is NOT the place to direct real questions regarding Kashrus, Hilchos Shabbos, or any inquiries regarding Halacha in practice.
I hope there’s a Rav somewhere out there who can answer your questions.February 23, 2017 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1227806
What are you worried about in the kitchen? If you have reason to suspect that the person brings non-kosher into their kitchen or doesn’t keep milk and meat separate then by all means, don’t trust them (I certainly wouldn’t!). But without reason to suspect anything, ?? ??? ???? ????????.
Regarding cholov yisrael and cholov stam: If you believe that cholov stam is actually ??? ?????, then you probably shouldn’t eat food that was made in pots that were used to cook with cholov stam. (I can think of reasons to be lenient even there like ?”? ?? ?”? and ???? ?? ????, but I’ll leave that aside) If you believe that cholov stam is ????? ???? ???, but you want to be like Rav Moshe’s ??? ??? ?????, then you should be okay eating from those pots.
To clarify what I mean when I say ?? ??? ???? ???????? – you can trust somebody that his food meets the standard that he purports to keep. For example, you can trust that the meat in my house is glatt kosher (unless you don’t trust me, which is fine being that I am anonymous), but don’t assume that my challah is yoshon unless I knew you were coming and checked to make sure the flour was yoshon before I served it.February 23, 2017 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #1227807MenoParticipant
There are many other kashrus issues that can arise in a kitchen even if everything entering the kitchen is totally kosher. It’s not as simple as “keeping milk and meat separate”.
That is, of course, unless you have 6 kitchen sinks (shoutout to CTL)February 23, 2017 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1227808CTLAWYERParticipant
Separate sinks, counters, dishwashers, ovens, refrigerators
This is one time segregation is according to lawFebruary 23, 2017 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1227809
My sister-in-law’s parents have three separate kitchens. Milchiks and Fleishiks are in separate rooms, and there is a separate section with its own sink for Pareve. It’s interesting because they are Mesorati/dati-lite.
Her father is very proud of it and made a point of showing it to me when I was there for a simcha. Maybe he wanted to make sure I would eat by them.
editedFebruary 24, 2017 12:27 am at 12:27 am #1227810Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
There are people who keep Chalav Yisroel, but not for equipment. That being said, I doubt many of them would truly trust dairy food made in a non-chalav-Yisroel kitchen. The equipment wouldn’t be the only problem, but rather to kitchen owner’s knowledge of accommodating that need.
I think the original post is on target. I don’t like that the thread has been called disturbing. In a lot of communities, I think the range of Kashrus is wider than it should be (sometimes extending outside of the halachah). You don’t want to make someone feel like they’re in the halachic dilemma of choosing between eating something they don’t trust, embarrassing you, or even making you angry.February 24, 2017 12:31 am at 12:31 am #1227811
NCB – +1,000!February 24, 2017 12:35 am at 12:35 am #1227812🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
the thread isn’t disturbing, it was disturbing me. And you seem to have misunderstood the upset. There is nothing wrong with being careful, even vigilant in your kashrus and carefully guarding what you eat and where it comes from. But that has nothing to do with giving and receiving mishloach manos, only with eating it.
and thank you for your respectful tone.February 24, 2017 12:38 am at 12:38 am #1227813MenoParticipant
How would not eating someone’s michloach manos embarrass them or make them angry?
It’s not like they deliver it and stand there waiting for you to try itFebruary 24, 2017 1:29 am at 1:29 am #1227814
Meno – That is true. I had seen the point as being about a way to go “lifnim meshuras hadin” and show extra consideration by not sending them something they can’t eat even though there is nothing wrong with doing so (as I pointed out previously).
Although, as you pointed out, perhaps making something home-baked could itself be seen as a way of going “lifnim meshuras hadin” by making something that is more yummy for those who do eat it.
Personally, for me the dilemma would be about whether or not to eat it. As I mentioned in another thread, my (practically) only taavos are for things that can be eaten or read 🙂
I imagine that would not be a dilemma for most other adults. What might be a dilemma for some is figuring out if they should let the kids have it.February 24, 2017 2:43 am at 2:43 am #1227815
You’re not addressing my point. I know that kashrus issues CAN arise, but unless you have reason to suspect that they have, ?? ??? ???? ????????. Next time I go through ??? ???? and ?????? I will ??? ??? count how many times the ????? ???? say ??????? ?????? ?? ???????.February 26, 2017 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1227816
shebbesonian – I think we’re talking about a case where you have reason to suspect that you can’t trust the person’s kashrus.
Or that you don’t have a reason to assume that you can.
Obviously you can’t apply ?? ??? ???? ???????? to being able to eat food from anyone’s home. The average Jew in America is not even Frum. So clearly there has to be a reason to believe that you can eat this person’s food before you can start applying that principle.
I would assume that the basis for assuming you can eat in a particular person’s home in the first place is that you know that this is a person who is very knowledgeable in the relevant halachos and has the same standards as you.
When people don’t eat in other’s homes, it ispresumably because they feel that this doesn’t apply for one of two reasons: 1. They know the person and know that the person doesn’t have the same standards as them.
or: 2: They feel that there are enough Orthodox people who don’t have these standards or are ignorant of them, that they can’t assume that any particular person is “b’chezkas kashrus” unless they know that they are.February 26, 2017 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1227817WolfishMusingsParticipant
If I want to give home baked goods for Mishloach Manos, I will. If people don’t trust my kashrus to eat it, that’s their problem, not mine.
The WolfFebruary 26, 2017 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1227818JosephParticipant
I use it to feed the birds.February 26, 2017 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #1227819
That’s very kind of you.March 14, 2017 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1227826
Giving Chalav Stam to Others
Rabbi Shay Tahan
3/13/2017 – Mar. 13, 2017
About giving Chalav Stam in MMMarch 14, 2017 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1227828ubiquitinParticipant
“I think we’re talking about a case where you have reason to suspect that you can’t trust the person’s kashrus.
Or that you don’t have a reason to assume that you can.”
These are 2 contradictory statements. The rest of your post is similarly riddled with the same mistake.
eid echad means you can eat other people’s food unless you have a reason not to. “The average Jew in America is not even Frum.” well that is a reason not to. So the line that follows doesnt make sense.March 14, 2017 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1227829iacisrmmaParticipant
LB: I listened to Rabbi Tahan and his discussion was enlightening. However, I would not base any decision about this issue without discussing it with my personal LOR. Even Rabbi Tahan stated that it is only based on a statement by Rabbi Shlomo Kluger that one is not yotzai shalach manos. He did not mention if their are others who disagree.March 14, 2017 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1227830WolfishMusingsParticipant
We have a family tradition to bake hamantaschen every year. We don’t include them in the Mishloach Manos (largely because they don’t last until Purim 🙂 ) but I would have no problem including them.
If you don’t trust my kashrus and don’t want to it? That’s fine — just don’t be a jerk and say so to my face.
The WolfMarch 14, 2017 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1227831
He did talk about whether or not you can give it away to another Jew if for you it is not kosher enough.
If you believe it is kosher but you took on the stringency then you can be meikel, but if you believe that it is assur than you cannot give it to another Jew who holds by chalav stam —would that not also apply to giving away MM that you wouldn’t eat?
Also, he said that you cannot give away chalav stam to a nonJewish stranger, but you can give it to a nonJew who it would benefit to give it to, such as a cleaning lady, co-worker, neighbor.
In the case of chalav stam, if one won’t eat it, then he can throw it away and it is not a ____[forgot the term that maybe says not to throw away food?]__. It is permissible in this case.March 14, 2017 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1227833iacisrmmaParticipant
LB: There is a prohibition about “wasting things” especially food known a BAAL TASHCHIS”. He stated that if you have food that you consider assur then you are not violating BAAL TASHCHIS by throwing it out.
As for shalach manos, lets say you give someone 2 pareve items and 1 chalav stam, you were yotzai the mitzvah with the the two pareve items. It is practically impossible to know everyone’s personal chumros. What if a person doesn’t eat from “Hashgacha A” and all your items are from that hashgacha? Do you have to worry about that? No.
As for giving food items to a goy, he stated it was better to give it to someone you don’t know.
I have friends who are makpid on chalav yisroel but their children aren’t. They just give the chalav stam to their children.March 14, 2017 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #1227834
I posted an hour ago a post that is still awaiting moderation. It was a story about someone asking a well-known Gadol what to do with chalav stam chocolates they were given. He said they could give it away. To be more precise, he said “give it to me.”
L’maaseh, if someone is in this situation, they should ask a sheilah before assuming that it is okay to throw it out. That was my point.
If someone considers something assur it should certainly be okay to throw it out. But I am not sure that one could consider chalav stam to be in that category as Rav Moshe Feinstein zatsal permitted it. But I don’t know, so someone in that situation should ask.March 15, 2017 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1227835
iacisrmma: I took notes on his talk and he said that you can give it to a nonJew that you know personally and discouraged giving it to a stranger.
Maybe I’ll listen to it again to confirm
“I have friends who are makpid on chalav yisroel but their children aren’t. They just give the chalav stam to their children. ” (iacisrmma)
Thanks for sharing 🙂
That’s so interesting. I guess that the children are already out of the house at that point?March 15, 2017 2:14 am at 2:14 am #1227836
Some people are makpid on Chalav Yisrael themselves but don’t impose it on their children since they consider it a chumra and one is not supposed to be machmir on others.
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