Hot Dog Eating Contest

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  • #619423
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Can you enter one if you’re frum and the hot dogs are glatt?

    #1222942
    Joseph
    Participant

    No. Fressing like a chazir isn’t muttar in the name of a contest.

    #1222943
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph: What if you won a round-trip flight from NY to Israel on El Al?

    Not hot dogs, but El Al hosted a National Hamantaschen Eating Championship.

    What if you use the prize to go pray at the Kotel or see family or something else holy?

    #1222944
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    You are not allowed to do an aveirah in order to do a Mitzvah.

    #1222945
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Does that mean that entering a hot dog eating contest is a definite aveirah?

    1. On one hand, I can ask myself, is stuffing one’s face with kosher food elevating the food and oneself? (no)

    2. At the same time, is an eating contest a black and white halachic matter, which in this case is an aveirah? (?)

    3. Does it make a difference if it is not publicized? (maybe it is less of a chillul Hashem (CH), but a CH is a CH either way)

    4. What about a children’s eating contest?

    Didn’t think about it back then, but I once babysat for a Jewish family. The children had a gherkin eating contest.

    The parents allowed it.

    I was there watching as they were laughing and stuffing their faces.

    …Was that also assur?

    #1222946
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I can’t say 100% for sure, but I think it’s assur.

    Eating too much in general is probably not a 100% black-and-white issur (even though there are problems with it from a Torah perspective) but this is not the same thing. In that case, you are eating for the sake of eating. You really want to eat the food, and it really is serving a purpose.

    In this case, you don’t want to eat the food and you are just “using” it. It seems to me that it’s: 1. being “mevazeh” (disgracing) the food,

    and 2. wasting food since you are not eating it for the purpose of eating but only for the purpose of winning a contest.

    A Jew is supposed to “eat in order to live”. The purpose of eating is to give us energy to serve Hashem. Even if someone eats unhealthy food, he is still doing it because it is giving him energy (emotional and/or physical) to serve Hashem. If you eat chocolate to have energy to do Mitzvos, then eating the chocolate becomes part of your Avodas Hashem.

    But when you stuff yourself for the sake of a contest, you are not eating in order to have energy to serve Hashem. You are “using” the food, and acting like an animal. It is the antithesis of Kedusha and what a Jew stands for.

    There used to be an avoda zara that involved stuffing oneself and then going to the bathroom in front of the avoda zara (or something like that). That is what this sounds like to me.

    #1222947
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    In terms of the kids you babysat for, kids do things like this. Maybe the parents’ didn’t feel that it was necessary or helpful from a chinuch perspective to say anything about it. Parents have to “choose their battles”, and sometimes it’s better not to make an issue out of things.

    I have heard quotes from Rabbanim or Chinuch experts that when your kid does something that you know he will outgrow and not do as an adult, it is usually not a good idea to make a big deal out of it.

    Children are not obligated in Mitzvos. The purpose of chinuch is to make sure your kids learn to do the right thing so they will act properly as adults. When it comes to things that they won’t do as adults anyhow, it’s possible that chinuch doesn’t apply.

    I have no idea in this case if the parents did the right thing or not, and I do not know what the best response would have been. I am just explaining why they might have chosen not to say anything.

    #1222948
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    LU: Omgosh! That’s such a great point. They will obviously grow out of it (most likely). So it doesn’t make sense to forbid it.

    PLUS… Who knows what they were doing before the eating contest? My dog will try to bite at my arm and does a jumping thing when he wants my attention or wants to play. I give him toys, and recently old shmattis to rip up.

    If someone walked into my home at that moment, or was dog-sitting, they would see me pleased that my dog is ripping up rags. Little does this person know that because of these toys, he is thankfully entertained and not getting into trouble.

    Okay so my dog is not necessarily going to grow out of wanting to play with dog toys. However, I substituted something unpleasant and inappropriate for him to do socially with something else.

    #1222949
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    It’s actually a blessing that the children were all sitting down together at one table doing a gherkin eating contest!

    <<< They weren’t eating piles of junk food. They were contained. They were interacting together. They were having fun. They were being relatively clean and neat. Everything happened on the table and there was little if not nothing to clean up. They were being good happy children and it made it easier for me to watch them. >>>

    So thank you, because now in retrospect, I can say Baruch Hashem for their game.

    (YAY)

    #1222950
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    There is something called Hashkafa (outlook). Our behavior does not just follow the black and white halacha, but also an outlook on how a Torah observant Jew should behave. Even if there is no halacha outright prohibiting a hot dog eating contest, it certainly sounds like it goes against Torah Hashkafa.

    #1222951
    lesschumras
    Participant

    LU and Joseph, exactly where did you both get Smicha? Joseph says it’s assured and LU says it’s an avaira, but “is not sure”. Please stop issuing psaks unless you can cite chapter and verse which posek says it is assur.

    #1222952
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Recently, a non sectarian group in our area sponsored a Hot Dog Eating Contest to help raise funds for the local food bank and fund the cost of dinners at a local soup kitchen.

    Area residents and clergy were outraged.

    The Jews for many of the reasons stated above.

    The Christians because it violates one of the ‘Seven Deadly Sins’>>>Gluttony

    and the general populace who wanted to know how overeating and wasting food helps those who are starving and need assistance to provide meals.

    The board of the organization has been repleced

    #1222953
    lesschumras
    Participant

    If you want to talk about gluttony, go to an after davening kiddush or a wedding smorgasbord. People stuff their mouths like their is no tomorrow, pile food on their plates then throw out half because ultimately their eyes were far bigger than their stomach

    #1222954
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Food “eating” contests are extremely dangerous to the participants, and for that reason alone should be assur. Eating huge amounts of food in a very short period of time is extremely unhealthy, and can cause serious gastroparesis and could require surgery.

    Back in 2007, a California radio station held a water drinking contest for a video came console, and a woman died of water intoxication after trying to compete.

    In 2010, a boy choked to death during a hotdog eating contest to benefit victims of the Haiti earthquake.

    #1222955
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    lesschumras,

    Don’t let your vendetta against perceived “chumras” overload your common sense. Do you really intend to argue that endangering your life in order to win a prize is muttar?

    #1222956
    golfer
    Participant

    Lesschum, I’m searching for a DON’T like button next to your post.

    In lieu of that kindly take this advice-

    Basic etiquette (or mature adult behavior if you prefer):

    When eating with others at a social event or gathering, keep your eyes on your own plate.

    How to behave like a Yid:

    Don’t start your day by maligning wide swaths of the population in a disgusting manner.

    #1222957
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    CTLAWYER,

    and the general populace who wanted to know how overeating and wasting food helps those who are starving and need assistance to provide meals.

    Because eating contests are “entertaining” to watch – it’s a modern day bloodsport – and thus lucrative. Nathan’s hotdogs makes a lot of money off of their eating contests. Instead of watching gladiators maul each other in the Colosseum, “modern civilized” folk watch people maul their own bodies with food.

    #1222958
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Avram in MD: Wow I didn’t know that it was so dangerous and it def makes sense that it isn’t something to just do for someone who had never done it before.

    Professional eaters practice and compete.

    Water in general someone can die of if drinking too much and that is not something to play around with.

    As for the hot dog eating contest, for a frum Jew who isn’t training professionally, it can have grave consequences.

    I thought that maybe the hot dog eating contest to help the poor in CTLAWYER’s case may have only happened because that was the way that they could get the food and financial donations from maybe the good companies because it would give the companies free advertising and media coverage. Still if Hashem was going to help out then it would have to be in a better way.

    I just Googled the effects of competitive eating and it’s scary.

    #1222959
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    lightbrite,

    4. What about a children’s eating contest?

    Didn’t think about it back then, but I once babysat for a Jewish family. The children had a gherkin eating contest.

    The parents allowed it.

    I was there watching as they were laughing and stuffing their faces.

    I personally have discouraged my kids from competing with each other while eating, but every child and every situation are different, so it’s up to the loving parents. Depending on the ages and type of food, there still could be a choking risk to watch out for, but siblings at the table who are having fun are unlikely to “push past the pain” and risk hurting themselves.

    #1222960
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What about a marror eating contest?

    When I was a kid, I saw that at my LOS. It was so fun seeing my LOR being so silly and tearing up (he was always very serious in my eyes).

    #1222961
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    That wasn’t a contest, your childhood rav just held by Great Gedalia Goomber’s shiurim 🙂

    #1222962
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What does that mean?

    Well there was an informal competition/contest between him and a few other rabbis and/or congregants to see who could eat the most maror. I don’t know if there was a prize but there was a winner. I don’t remember who won.

    #1222963
    lesschumras
    Participant

    So, let’s assur any activity that might possibly, however remote, result in injury.

    Golfer, it’s hard not to notice when 1.someone grabs an entire plate of Kishka for himself 2. When someone elbows you out of the way to get a chulent refill 3. When someone stands eating at the table and refuses to move etc.

    Avram, boorish behavior is in the eye of the beholder. By your definition, a frum slumlord is committing an avaira by putting the lives of his tenants at risk ( bad wiring, no heat hot water etc)

    #1222964
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    lightbrite,

    What does that mean?

    I was kidding. In just under a month, we’ll probably start reading complaints in the CR about how the shiurim (amounts of matza and marror we’re required to eat at the seder) grow each year, like the big ol’ fish that Bubba caught back in the day.

    #1222965
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Avram

    Its not so funny,Some people eat Chazon Ish sized Shmurah Matzah in under 3 mins (I think) certainly alot less than 9 mins

    #1222966
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    lesschumras,

    So, let’s assur any activity that might possibly, however remote, result in injury.

    Slippery slope fallacy, and ridiculous. Do you play Russian roulette for the fun of it?

    Golfer, it’s hard not to notice when 1.someone grabs an entire plate of Kishka for himself

    Never seen that at my shul.

    2. When someone elbows you out of the way to get a chulent refill

    Never seen that at my shul. The minhag in my shul is to politely say “good Shabbos” (translation: I don’t hate you, but get outta my way!)

    3. When someone stands eating at the table and refuses to move etc.

    Never seen that at my shul.

    Just because you’re a member of Temple Beth Boor doesn’t mean the rest of us are.

    Avram, boorish behavior is in the eye of the beholder.

    I do think eating contests are boorish, but not one time did I say that or use that in an argument. So why are you arguing with me like I did?

    By your definition, a frum slumlord is committing an avaira by putting the lives of his tenants at risk ( bad wiring, no heat hot water etc)

    Absolutely. Not to mention potential chillul Hashem. Why would you think I would feel any differently? Dude, lose the prejudice and hatred against your brethren.

    #1222967
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    “By your definition, a frum slumlord is committing an avaira by putting the lives of his tenants at risk ( bad wiring, no heat hot water etc)” (LC)

    Lesschumras: Isn’t this an aveirah because it puts lives in danger plus it is a chillul Hashem?


    At last night’s Tetzaveh Torah class, my LOR said that Torah speaks very practically on how a Jew must dress and conduct himself because he represents the Jewish people with his dress and behavior.

    One who even walks around with grease on his shirt should die (but not literally be put to death, as far as I understood, but halacha states it like that to send a message). —- (((Maybe this relates to the hot dog eating which can be messy – but maybe not because any grease is understood in context of the contest)))

    #1222968
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Oops just saw Avram in MD’S response after sending this.

    I have seen people do what lesschumras said about pushing for food and even complaining about it unfortunately.

    The shul was not Temple Beth Boor but it was very welcoming to everyone and there were several otherwise normal yet ravenous individuals in the group.

    #1222969
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    AIM: Thanks for explaining. Didn’t know that it was a joke.

    ZD: questions on eating matzoh in under 3 min or at least under 9…

    Is that during a speed sedar? When they are trying to get to the meal asap?

    Or they are just super hungry?

    Or is it to fulfill the mitzvah quickly (where one is not to delay a mitzvah)?

    #1222970
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You are supposed to eat a Kezayis of matzah in a certain amount of time otherwise you are not Yotzei

    There is a debate exactly how much a Kezays is and how long it takes to eat it. The Chazon ish was famous for larger portions than other opinions

    #1222971
    Joseph
    Participant

    Even the largest shitta for afikomen is relatively a small amount of food.

    #1222972
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Has anyone ever found an afikomen years or months later?

    Is there a deadline to find it? If the finding person does not find it within a certain amount of time, must you give a hint or give away its location?

    #1222973
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Is eating matzah supposed to be satiating in itself?

    Back then maybe matzah was more of a highlight and now even Shmurah matzah is more accessible and affordable.

    From what I have noticed and experienced,today’s matzah eating is part of the sedar but not necessarily the highlighted taste of the Pesach meal.

    #1222974
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    lightbrite,

    I have seen people do what lesschumras said about pushing for food and even complaining about it unfortunately.

    I have seen accidental pushing, with “oh, sorry, excuse me!” thrown in, but that is a normal pitfall of a large crowd trying to access a small space.

    I have seen people grab an entire plate of food off the table, but it’s usually to move it closer to their plates so they can serve themselves without spilling stuff all over the table. If I ask for the plate back politely I’m usually obliged politely.

    I have seen people standing at the communal tables and eating, but they are typically unaware that they are blocking others, and a quick “good Shabbos” or “excuse me” will get them to move.

    and there were several otherwise normal yet ravenous individuals in the group.

    I bet the davening ends fairly late at your shul.

    #1222975
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Chazon ish Portion is about 3/4 of a hand Made Shmurah Matza, it is not a small amout of food.

    I think the Rav moshe size which is what many schools give out is about 1/2 a matzah.

    marror too, you have to eat a certain amount. I think its about 5 stalks of lettuce for a Kezayis

    #1222976
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    marror too, you have to eat a certain amount. I think its about 5 stalks of lettuce for a Kezayis

    Depends on the size of the stalks.

    #1222977
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Romaine Lettuce stalks are all about the same size , about 3 inches or so long

    #1222978
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    You must like baby greens 🙂

    #1222979
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    LB, afikomen must be eaten by halachic midnight. If the piece hidden away is not available (e.g. kid who hid it fell asleep and no one else can find it, or kid drives too hard a bargain), or not enough to cover everyone’s minimal shiur, then any matza can be used for tzafon.

    Eating matza is a very important part of the seder. One should not fill oneself up during shulchan aruch so as to have room for the afikomen.

    I never understood all the emphasis on cooking fancy foods for shulchan aruch- who is hungry after all that matza and who can eat a big meal so late at night?

    And by the way, if anything (hand) shumar matza gets more expensive every year. That’s why it is called lechem oni, because it makes you poor. (sorry, old joke)

    #1222980
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    LB: There is no requirement that the afikoman has to be hidden. The custom for children to “chaap” the afikoman is twofold: 1) so that they should stay awake for the seder.

    2)It is related to Yaakov Avinu receiving the brochos instead of Eisav which took place on the day we celebrate Pesach. The passuk says ????????? ???? ??????? ?????????? ????????? ???????????:

    The numerical value of ?????????? is 287. Beis =2, mem =40 (x2=80) resh=200 and hay =5. 200+80+5+2=287.

    afikoman is also 287 (alef=1, pey=80, yud=10, kuf=100, vav=6, mem-40, nun=50 (1+80+10+100+6+40+50=287).

    It does not actually have to be hidden away unless the adults want to look for it.

    #1222981
    golfer
    Participant

    Fancy foods for Shulchan Orech?

    Not at my house.

    Same menu every year.

    (But my family are nice. They always make it seem like that’s just what they wanted. Who knows? Maybe it is.)

    The Matzah and simanei haseder take center stage. Literally and otherwise.

    And there’s always serious discussion about this year’s shmurah matzah vs last year’s & this year’s maror vs last year’s. Anyone else have that minhag?

    #1222982
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Two things.

    1. A Shmurah matzah has the circumference as a large pizza, or at least medium. 3/4th is a lot of matzah!

    Was the Chazon Ish eating and referring to today’s size matzah? Maybe back in the day they were smaller?

    2. The afikomen does not have to be hidden? News to me.

    Want to know something that seemed like such a great idea last year and in retrospect maybe was not?

    Last year, my Pesach table at the shul hid the afikomen in someone’s stroller. The husband wife and baby got up to leave early.

    We felt bad that they would miss the afikomen, and wanted to make them happy (so we thought that they would appreciate it, but maybe not).

    Thus, we hid it in the bottom part of the stroller, expecting them to be surprised when they found it once they walked home (guessing that they walked by all appearances and there was an Eruv).

    Was that thoughtful or foolish?


    Thanks 🙂

    #1222983
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    LB: Matzos are made differently so the circumference is not uniform. Also there are thin and thick matzos (relative terms). Some bakeries have 6 matzos to a pound (relatively “thick”) and some have 9 or 10 matzos to a pound (relatively “thin”). The thinner the matzo, more of the matzo has to be eaten to satisfy the measurement of a “kezayis” (size of an olive). The friendswithdiabetes dot org website has a chart for this.

    Moderators: here are the actual links if you will allow it. I know the rules. Since it is for a mitzvah….

    http://friendswithdiabetes.org/files/pdf/thickenglish.pdf

    http://friendswithdiabetes.org/files/pdf/thinenglish.pdf

    #1222984
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Chazon Ish died in 1953, While for many that might seen like a long time ago, It really isnt

    #1222985
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Can a chumra sweeten a bitter eye?

    #1222986
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    RY – what do you mean?

    #1222987
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    ZD: “The Chazon Ish died in 1953, While for many that might seen like a long time ago, It really isnt”

    And therefore?

    #1222988
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    LU: Because I was saying that back in Chazon Ish’s day maybe the circumferences of the matzot were smaller. And/or maybe finding a Shmurah matzah was a greater investment, bigger deal, more prized part of the sedar eating.

    It really isn’t long ago.

    #1222989
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    “A chumra can sweeten a bitter eye” was one of the tags.

    #1222990
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    One of the biographies of the Chazon Ish mentions that he baked his own matzos and the oven was small so only 3 or 4 matzos were baked at one time.

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