February 23, 2018 4:28 am at 4:28 am #1475382
1. Ask him. I reposted in response to the question posed by the O.P.
2. It would have to be per capita as Israel has only eight million citizens. If you include all the weapons in the hands of Hamas it might be more. According to the Wikipedia the US has over forty times as many guns per hundred people (not necessarily civilians) than Israel but America also has much larger armed forces and police departments.
3. I would imagine that it would depend on the state. NYC has one of the toughest gun laws in the world but that has never stopped criminals. Switzerland, on the other hand, has non-restrictive laws and compulsory militia training. However, we have not heard of massacres there. In an case, today anyone can make his own on the Internet so it would make much more sense to concentrate on mental health care and proactive enforcement. The FBI had a number of tips on Cruz and he set off all the warning lights from childhood. Why was nothing done?February 23, 2018 10:04 am at 10:04 am #1475440
Ubiq – “Dont look in the mirror, but so do you.
and I quote: “I agree with Trump about making gun ownership more regulated””
This is what I agree with – Trump tweeted this:
“I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks!”
What do you agree with? That a lot of guns should be made illegal?!?February 23, 2018 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1475437
” It would have to be per capita ”
“also has much larger armed forces and police departments.”
you beleive the US has a per cpaita police force that is 40 times larger than Israel’s?
And yes when limited to civilian arsenals the US still ranks #1
USA USA USA!
“I would imagine that it would depend on the state. ”
It doesnt. there is a direct correlation between gun ownership and gun death.
(though not necceserily a correlation with strictness of gun laws)
“NYC has one of the toughest gun laws in the world but that has never stopped criminals.”
NH with one of the least restrictive is not too far.
See “America’s gun problem explained in 17 charts” on Vox for some eye opening statisticsFebruary 23, 2018 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1475589
Health my friend
It’s a time of achdus let’s not get caught up where we disagree and focus on where we agreee.
you want gun control , “Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks” I want gun control
I am in complete agreement about that. LEts stand up to the NRA we can be two liberals aganist their evil movment. (they have iopposed all 3 of the measures you mention!!!!!!) see I’m even using rxclamation marks.
We arent that different after allFebruary 25, 2018 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1475740
1. I was referring to the easy of obtaining a gun (for a law-abiding citizen – criminals have no problem).
2. There is also a direct correlation between car ownership and fatal accidents. Should cars be banned?
3. Darrell Huff wrote a book called How to Lie with Statistics, which is available on PDF. One good way is to not count other factors. Chazal, in fact, discuss this regarding why a boy who climbed a tree to send away the mother bird at his father’s command fell and died (e.g. perhaps he thought about worshiping idols).February 25, 2018 2:54 am at 2:54 am #1475756
Ubiq – “I am in complete agreement about that. LEts stand up to the NRA we can be two liberals aganist their evil movment. (they have iopposed all 3 of the measures you mention!!!!!”
I was agreeing with Trump; if Congress doesn’t go along – 2 people against the NRA is useless!
You still didn’t answer my question.February 25, 2018 9:03 am at 9:03 am #1475782
“I was referring to the easy of obtaining a gun”
I’m not sure what this refers too.
“There is also a direct correlation between car ownership and fatal accidents. Should cars be banned?”
This silly comparison was raised several times in this thread. Cars are far more regulated than guns in the US. If we regulated guns like we do cars that would be a great step. Since you strangely compared the two I assume you agree.
So I take it you support:
– registering all guns like we do cars. (and then reregestering them every so often)
– requiring license which need to be renewed every so often
– gun insurance
– require safety features
– restrictions in how they can be used (you cant drive over n miles per hour, an analogy would be magazine over n number of bullets)
– Doctor can have your license revoked if he deems you unsafe
” How to Lie with Statistics”
It’s a good book. You are right maybe the US has a higher proportion of people with thoughts about worshiping idols which no doubt explains our higher gun homicide rate
“2 people against the NRA is useless!”
Well the good news is we are finally more than 2 people
“You still didn’t answer my question.”
Lol! you rarely answer questions, though I’m not sure which question you are referring toFebruary 25, 2018 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1475940hujuParticipant
There are many places that have much lower rates of mass shooting than the United States. The one thing they have in common is radically tighter control of guns.Make up your minds, America. Do we want a well-regulated militia, per the Second Amendment, or guns for all, per the National Rifle Association and their financial backers, who are mostly gun manufacturerers.February 25, 2018 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1475945
Ubiq -“though I’m not sure which question you are referring to”
“What do you agree with? That a lot of guns should be made illegal?!?”February 25, 2018 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1475971
“What do you agree with?”
I agree with you! Shalom al yisroel why look for machlokes.
You mentioned 3 proposals ( Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks!) I agree with all of them. whole-heartedly
“That a lot of guns should be made illegal?!?”
Thats a new topic. “a lot” is relative, and i’m not sure to be honest. I think sensible gun control like in ISrael might be a better idea.
At ny rate, why look for machlokes.
WE are in agreement. venehapoch huFebruary 26, 2018 7:19 am at 7:19 am #1476767
Huju, you are also ignoring other possible factors. First of all, in a country the size of the US the law of large numbers comes into play and there will be a certain number of homicidal nuts (IMHO we have to factor out the vast majority of murders in which the culprit knows the victim and decided that he deserves to die as the murder would be committed in any case). The main thrust should be mental health care and keeping weapons out of their hands. Cruz lit all the red lights from childhood and law enforcement agencies were tipped off on him several times. Why did no one do something? I think that there is also a factor in the general attitude towards human life. Police in other countries (certainly in Israel), for example, do not shoot to kill at the rate of American police. On the other hand, America has a much higher violent crime rate.February 26, 2018 9:11 am at 9:11 am #1476793FreddyfishParticipant
Let’s ban all cars!February 26, 2018 10:12 am at 10:12 am #1476792
“there will be a certain number of homicidal nuts ”
All the MORE reason for stricter background checks.
“IMHO we have to factor out the vast majority of murders in which the culprit knows the victim and decided that he deserves to die as the murder would be committed in any case”
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but it isnt based on factl. For example it has been proven (and is obvious) that domestic violence is more deadly when there is a gun in the home than when there isnt. Furthermore guns cause far more dammage than say knives. So even if the culprit ” decided that he deserves to die” It is far better for the victim’s survival for said violence to occur via knife than gun.
Agian, and I am not sure why this often gets forgotten, klnobody is suggesting that limiting guns will stop all crime or even allm murder.
” and keeping weapons out of their hands. ”
Oh good. so you support some gun control.
The NRA has opposed this in the past.
“Why did no one do something?”
I dont know.
“On the other hand, America has a much higher violent crime rate.”
Yep, and guess what elese America has a much higher rate of ownership of. I’ll give you a hint it rhymes with fun. and you really don’t think there is a linkage between the two? you think it is more likely that there is some hidden other factor like secret idol worship thoughts)
by the way your arguemtn about not counting other factrs works on a limited basis. Say there is a country like switzerland which has a high rate of gun ownership but a low crime/homicide rate, maybe they never think about idols, or are very pacifict by nature or something. But when their is a trend this argument is hard to sustain.
If all people who climbed trees to send birds away at their father’s command tumpled off and died, it would be harder to argue that they all had thoughts of idol worship.February 27, 2018 10:20 am at 10:20 am #1477886
1. I do not know that a person has a much higher chance of surviving an attack with a knife, a hammer or a poison than with a gun. One of the Parkland victims is almost out of the hospital despite three bullets in the torso.
2. The NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch supported background checks that will keep guns out of the hands of nuts.
3. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If law enforcement officers are schlemiehls nothing will help.
4. I was referring to the general culture as being a reason why there are countries that have high rates of gun ownership and low crime rates.February 27, 2018 11:32 am at 11:32 am #1477989
1. Well I do. I have treated victims of all of those. And there is no comparison.
There is a reason why there is an expression “dont bring a knife to a gun fight” hoursbefore the Newton shooting in December 2012 there was a mass stabbing in a school in china. 24 people stabbed. none killed. Look at the recent stabbings in Israel. Do you really beleive the outcomes would havebeen the same if the terrorists had guns instead of knives? I grant these arent the most scientific explanation
2. That is a change thanks to people who have said enough is enough. In the past Wayne Lapierre has opposed expanding background checks
4. there are few such countries they are the exception.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.