Question for FuturePotus ❓

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    catch yourself

    I obviously can’t debate a Psak that has not been explained, but I think it’s important to make this point: People often use the term “Lashon Hara” as an umbrella term which encompasses all forms of forbidden speech, such as Ona’as Devarim, Motzi Shem Ra, Rechilus, Megaleh Sod, Malbin Pnei Chaveiro, et al. If the reasoning for the Psak was a technicality limited to Lashon Hara in its narrow sense (such as Apei Tlasa), then either the Shaila was presented incorrectly, or the Posek needs to do a better job of understanding Shailos. The question was not whether the particular post was Lashon Hara per se, but whether it was permitted to post.

    In any case, to the extent that I am not being allowed to know either the identity of the Posek or the reason for the Psak, there is no reason for me to consider it authoritative, especially considering that it is at odds with my own understanding of the Halachos.

    A new cycle of Chofetz Chaim Yomi starts today, so maybe this time I will figure it out…

    Avram in MD


    The reason I haven’t responded as to the reasoning of the psak, was because the Rav I asked the question to felt that it should not be posted here. I thought I made that position clear, and didn’t feel a need to further defend it.

    No, that was not clear to me; perhaps I missed something. Up until this point, I felt you made it clear that the rav did not want his name out there, but it appeared to be you personally who had a problem with explaining the reasoning behind the psak. If the rav did not even want the reasoning of his psak discussed on the CR, then I think you erred by divulging his psak at all. It is natural and appropriate for someone who is told about ruling that differs from what they believe the halacha is to be curious and want to learn more.

    As to why I didn’t respond to Avram in MD’s paragraph by paragraph analysis on my post in the original thread, I didn’t feel that I was able to write anything that could better defend my position than what I originally wrote, and felt that if I wrote anything further it would detract from the original message I wished to put out there. I wrote the post in a moment of focus, and I’m not able to write on that level at most other times to accurately defend my position.

    1. Why do you refer to me in the 3rd person?
    2. The CR is a forum for discussion, and it is intended for others to respond to posts. If you just want to state your position and not have a discussion with other posters, you may have more fun with a comments-disabled blog.

    Lilmod Ulelamaid

    Avram & Catch Yourself – thanks so much for responding to FuturePotus’s posts. I have been trying to figure out how to respond (to those posts). I have a lot to say, but wasn’t sure of the best way to say it. You two are doing a great job!! Carry on!

    Lilmod Ulelamaid

    DY – honestly, I would have expected better from you (and I mean that sincerely).

    If someone bashes Am Yisrael and a Torah institution like that, and neither explains nor deletes it, and even goes so far as to acknowledge that it was loshon hora, then yes, it shows that shmiras halashon is not important to them – certainly not nearly important enough.

    Lilmod Ulelamaid

    “Lilmod, you seem too rational a person to have this much of an emotional response to an issue. Why are you so attached to this issue? It seems to be taken too far at this point.”

    FuturePotus, if you would study what the Gedolim have to say about the severity of loshon hora, what it causes and how it is the reason why we are still in golus, I think your question would disappear. Actually, some new questions would take its place: “Why is Lilmod underreacting? And why aren’t all the posters and readers reacting? And why aren’t those who are reacting reacting more strongly?”

    “Don’t they realize how serious any loshon hora is? And don’t they realize that Loshon hora on the internet is millions of times more serious since it is read by millions of people from now until Mashiach come? And don’t they realize that loshon hora spoken about Am Yisrael as a whole or any group within Am Yisrael is way more serious than L”H about an individual? And don’t they realize how serious it is to speak l”h about a Torah institution? And don’t they realize how terrible it is to speak loshon hora about the Jewish people to goyim?
    Don’t they know what Chazal say about “malshinim”? “גיהנום כלין והן אינן כלין”

    Don’t they know that the Chofetz Chaim writes that we are in golus because of the sin of loshon hora and that Mashiach will come when we get rid of it? Why are they trying to prevent Mashiach from coming? Don’t they know of the great tragedies that the Chofetz Chaim writes happen as a result of loshon hora? Haven’t enough Jews been murdered and tortured already? Why are they causing any more to be murdered and tortured? How can someone remain silent when they see this happening?”

    I seriously recommend that you (as well an all the posters and readers here) join Catch Yourself in the new cycle of Chafetz Chaim Yomi. If we realized how serious it is to post l’h online and how careful we have to be with every word we write, we wouldn’t dream of posting until we learned the halachos of loshon hora thoroughly.

    Lilmod Ulelamaid

    I finally got through to the Rav I’ve been trying to reach. This Rav is one of the top Poskim in North America, particularly in the area of Shmiras Halashon. When I asked Rabbanim whom to call about this issue, he was the one whom they recommended I call.
    I had a very lengthy detailed discussion with him about the issue. When I checked my phone afterwards, I saw that the call had been 46 minutes long. I was extremely impressed that he gave me so much time for this.
    I read the OP’s OP to him as well as some of the subsequent posts (both the OP’s and mine). He said that what the OP wrote was lashon hora or motzi shem ra since it was written for the purpose of putting down Am Yisrael as a whole, a community, and a Yeshiva.
    He said that I did the right thing by asking that it be deleted. I asked him if the things I wrote were problematic. That is when he asked me to read what I wrote to him. I started reading off both the OP’s posts and mine. Up to a certain point, he said what I wrote was fine, but when I got to a particular post, he said that it was a problem and that I shouldn’t have gotten personal.
    He said that I should explain that I was wrong for getting personal but that it was because I was REALLY upset about the insult to Am Yisrael and its communities and Torah institutions.
    So I sincerely apologize for getting personal and for any inappropriate comments I made and I would like to ask mechila for that. I had not realized that any of my posts were problematic, but now that I know that they are, I would like to ask mechila.
    I am still really bothered by the denigration to Am Yisrael and its communities and institutions and I would like to sincerely request that the moderators and editors consider deleting the thread as they have done in previous instances.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this!
    And have a great YomTov!!!!

    Lilmod Ulelamaid

    I also would like to take the opportunity to ask mechila if there were ever other times when I was inadvertently too harsh when giving mussar about loshon hora or being dan l’kaf zchus, etc. (or anything else). I have in the past asked my fellow-posters to let me know if I was too harsh to them and if I could have phrased things differently than I did. I was very sincere in that request, and if anyone ever thinks that I should have phrased something I wrote to them differently than I did, I would really like to know. Thank you!

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