Shelo Asani Isha

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  • #1583549

    Haimy
    Participant

    There’s a concept of loeg lorosh. We don’t cause others to feel bad that they don’t have as much as us. This is why we don’t perform mitzvos in a cemetery since it pains the meisim that they can no longer do mitzvos.
    We don’t sing shelo asani isha so as not to pain women. Let’s remember that for most of history women were illiterate & knew little about what men said by davening.
    Shelo Asany goy the ainom yehudi don’t hear so there’s no life lorosh.

    #1588853

    slominer
    Participant

    Avrom, I saw your comment in the other thread about this issue (and reference to my comments here.) I wanted to reiterate that the idea of making a song from this is only on the basis if you’re okay with songs such as shelo asani goy and songs from pesukim, brochos, parts of davening and from the Gemorah. If one in general opposes such songs, I would agree a song of shelo asani isha is to be opposed on that same basis.

    But for those who buy the popular albums from the last 60 some years that are replete with songs of brochos and pesukim, then I don’t see a difference between making this into a song and making shelo asani goy into a song (as has been done on popular albums.)

    The same intention when singing shelo asani goy at any random time of the day when not saying Birchas Hashachar, would be to thank Hashem for that purpose for that reason. For exactly the same reason Chazal included that brocha in Birchas Hashachar, and that’s your intention during Birchas Hashachar, so is your intention the same when singing it at other times. I don’t think the description of singing shelo asani goy due to “Jewish pride”, as you’ve suggested, is the most accurate description of why to sing it. It may be a partial description. But the bigger and more accurate reason to sing it ten times a day is because you are really thankful to Hashem for giving you that brocho, for the same reasons Chazal considered it a brocho that we should thank Hashem seven days a week for.

    And so too with making shelo asani isha into a song. The reason to do so is to thank Hashem anytime of the day, any number of times, for this brocho we’re thankful for, for the same reasons Chazal incorporated this brocho into Birchas Hashachar for us to thank Hashem seven days a week for. No more, no less. You don’t even need any musical instruments or anything more than simply singing it from the heart. At a tish, at a farbrengen, at a kumzits, at a melave malka or at other times.

    We could do the same about any of the brochos.

    #1588915

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    How is that any better than making selichos into a song?

    #1596902

    Joseph
    Participant

    Last week Mr. Shmully Yanklowitz of YCT, who claims to have an Orthodox conversion despite his heretical beliefs, posted online that just as shelo asani isha is sexist so too shelo asani goy is “xenophobic Jewish exceptionalism”. And that both blessings need to equally be replaced.

    #1596934

    YTAB
    Participant

    Sam2 it’s from Rambam, Mishnah Horarios 3:7. As the Bartenua explains, “being obligated in more mitzvos, he is more sanctified than the woman.” but does that mean he as the sanctity to be commanded or that he is sanctified because he is commanded.

    #1597184

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Joseph, you are the only one who cares.

    #1597204

    Joseph
    Participant

    RY23, if I’m the only one who cares, why has the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah come out with multiple statements against OO/YCT? They too seem to care what those apikorsum are up to.

    #1597224

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, if he became an apikoros (which IMHO he is) after his conversion he is like any Jewish apikoros.

    #1597257

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi, since he surely held these and other heretical views at the time he purported to convert, his conversion is invalid on that basis alone. Furthermore, since his so-called conversion was conducted by other like-minded heretics in the groups that he associates with, that is an additional reason it is invalid.

    It is no different than a Reform or Conservative conversion.

    #1597380

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, how did you attain the level of בוחן כליות ולב? I did not find anything on which bet din converted him. Moreover, it happens frequently that people change their opinions over time.

    #1597827

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    “And that both blessings need to equally be replaced”

    V’ein kol chadash tachas hashemesh. It’s amazing how the OO copy what the Conservative movement R”L already did decades ago, thinking somehow it’s going to have different results.

    RebYidd23,

    “you are the only one who cares”

    I think the OO activities provoke more objections than the Conservative and Reform movements because they refer to themselves as “Orthodox”, whereas the other movements do not.

    #1598256

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I meant the other one besides for the Orthodox Jews.

    #1599376

    Some are makpid to stand on Yom Kippur during the whole Davening to imitate the מלאכים.
    Poskim* say that this Chumra doesn’t apply to women since there are no female מלאכים.
    There are other Poskim who say they should not say on Yom Kippur בשכ”מ loud for the same reason.

    The **ספר אורח נאמן writes that for the same reason women need not keep their feet together when Davening שמונה עשרה.

    *שו”×¢ הרב – שערי ציון
    **(הרב מנחם נתן אוירבך זצ”ל (מחותן של ר’ יוסף חיים זוננפלד זצ”ל

    #1599392

    DrYidd
    Participant

    I think many of the women married to the various misogynists should make the beracha made in the 15th century, quoted in the sefer leket yosher, shelo asani behaimah. maybe some men could say it so women will not feel discriminated against. however, for some men and women, it may not be completely true

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