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  • #759043

    Health
    Participant

    “It is almost as bad as being overweight.”

    It actually is much worse. While obesity IS a national health problem, by and far Smoking is the Leading cause of Preventable Death! (CDC)

    #759044

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    You are 100% WRONG!!!

    There are NOT smokers who have middos, brains, & love their children!!!

    No, you are wrong.

    I am not a smoker, but I am the son of a smoker. My mother has been smoking for over forty years. She began, foolishly, as a teen. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out to you, nicotine is very addictive and that addiction is a tough one to break. Some people are able to overcome it, and some people are not. My mother, unfortunately, is one of the latter. It’s not for a lack of trying… I *know* she has tried very, very hard to quit. Alas, to this point, it has not happened.

    But that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have middos. On the contrary, I look to my mother as a role model for middos. She is one of the kindest, most caring people in the world. Her emunah in HKBH dwarfs anything I could ever hope to achieve in my life.

    In addition, my mother is one of the wisest people I know. True, she is not college educated. In fact, being a ba’alas t’shuva, she never even went to a yeshiva. But she is one of the wisest, most clear-headed people I know. You may argue that she can’t be very wise if she knows what smoking does. But, alas, we all do foolish things when we were young. She did, I did, and I’d be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you did too. The difference between you and I and her is that the foolish things we did didn’t leave us physically addicted. So we did our foolish things and moved on. She cannot. We all mature… and if she had a choice on whether or not to start smoking today, she wouldn’t. But you can’t turn the clock back to the 1960s — you have to deal with the reality as it exists today — and today she is addicted.

    Lastly, how can you possibly say that someone who smokes doesn’t love their children with such definitiveness. Do you know every smoker? I know smokers personally, including those who raised perfectly normal and healthy kids. Considering you don’t know my back story, and you have no idea how much my mother sacrificed to raise my sister and I as frum Jews, you certainly have no grounds to make such a categorical claim that smokers don’t love their children. How could you even make such a claim? Is it because they may cause their kids heartache with disease later on? If so, would you say that people who are overweight don’t love their kids? Would you say that people who don’t exercise on a regular basis don’t love their kids? Would you say that people who do anything that entails any slight bit of risk more than the norm doesn’t love their kids?

    That being said, are there smokers who are, in fact, don’t have middos, don’t have brains and don’t, in fact, love their children? Sure. But since you seem to love to live in a black-and-white world, you’re ready to reject every smoker as a drooling idiotic boor who hates their family. Well, guess what? People are more complex than that. People have their good points and bad points. I doubt any of us are perfect enough that we can say that our middos are perfect. I doubt any of us can say that all of our actions are perfectly rational. And I doubt any of us with kids can say that everything we’ve done by our kids has, in hindsight been perfect.

    I respect my mother greatly. And yes, I can separate her smoking from the rest of her attributes. I hate the fact that she smokes, but that doesn’t stop me from seeing the fact that otherwise, she is a wonderful person.

    But yeah, I understand. To you she has rotten middos, is a blabbering idiot and hates me. Or perhaps maybe you’ll learn not to generalize large groups of people based on a single attribute.

    The Wolf

    #759045

    adorable
    Participant

    wolf- your post really touched me. Thank you for letting me see the other side of the story. No- my father is not a bad person, a mean person and yes he loves his children and is a great guy but he had (HAD) a bad habit! I used to get so upset when ppl told me that my father is so special but now i wont!

    #759046

    always here
    Participant

    Wolfish~ I love what you wrote & how articulate & passionate you were about your beloved Mother, amush.

    on a side note: I didn’t realize that I may be as old as your Mom!?! :-O

    #759048

    Guys who are addicted-definetly never. For them its a crutch- they get a lil stressed and think the cigarette’s gonna come save em..which it does..for jst a few minutes.

    Wouldn’t anyone want to marry someone a lil more stable than that?!

    #759049

    mw13
    Participant

    Suggesting that every single person who smokes is stupid, lacking middos, etc, is simply idiotic. There are plenty of wonderful, caring people who just made a mistake at some point in their lives (often during their teenage years) and are still suffering from it. And there are plenty of boys who smoke, yet would make wonderful husbands and fathers. Pass them up at your own risk.

    takish mamish:

    “Wouldn’t anyone want to marry someone a lil more stable than that?!”

    Smoking is a chemical addiction, and has nothing to do with a “stable” a person is. A smoker can be the most stable person in the world, and a non-smoker can be completely unstable.

    #759050

    Health
    Participant

    Wolf – I’m not here to call your mother names, but I would like to know has she tried quitting recently? There are drugs out there that really work. Even a few years ago we didn’t have these. The best approach to quiting is taking these drugs along with some sort of counselling.

    #759051

    my grandfather smoked in the early 1900’s. When he realized it was unhealthy, he quit cold turkey. Just like that. Not easy, but apparently doable.

    Hope this gives chizuk to people out there.

    v’nishmartem miod l’nafshoseichem

    #759052

    This may be an eye opener for some, however as many of us pointed out smoking is an addiction. Of late, there are women in our frum community smoking.They may do it in private but for someone who has lived with a smoker, (and no he was not permitted to do it at home) you can easily identify a smoker by the smell, teeth, nails or body signals when he/she has an urge and must have a cigarette. During the summer, at a bungalow colony one of the women pointed out that every so often, a certain lady(no longer with us) just left the circle for a few minutes. One smart lady quietly told me she went for a smoke. So let’s turn the question around “would you let your non smoking son marry a girl who smokes discreetly”…. i forgot to add and her father is ready to give a large dowry????

    #759053

    definately not!!!!! it can cause defects in children. also the mother is constantly around the kids theres tons of second hand smoke

    #759054

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf – I’m not here to call your mother names, but I would like to know has she tried quitting recently? There are drugs out there that really work. Even a few years ago we didn’t have these. The best approach to quiting is taking these drugs along with some sort of counselling.

    That’s a fair question. The answer is that I don’t know. I know she tried in the last three years or so. She may have tried again since then, but I can’t say for certain.

    It should be pointed out that my mother has an extensive medical history and takes quite a few medications for a number of different conditions. I honestly don’t know anything about the drugs that are involved and whether or not they are safe for her to take in combination with the ones she has to take.

    I don’t mind people taking my mother to task for smoking — heck, I, my wife and my kids do that too. I’m not here to defend her habit — I cannot and will not do that. I do mind, however, when people make broad generalizations about her, including implying that she’s a brainless boor who hates her kids.

    The Wolf

    #759055

    Health
    Participant

    “It should be pointed out that my mother has an extensive medical history and takes quite a few medications for a number of different conditions”

    It would stand to reason, any long time smoker will have many medical conditions. All the more reason to quit. Let her ask her PCP about combining the patch with Chantix and/or Zyban.

    #759056

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It would stand to reason, any long time smoker will have many medical conditions. All the more reason to quit. Let her ask her PCP about combining the patch with Chantix and/or Zyban.

    She has serious and long-term conditions that are completely unrelated to smoking.

    Considering that she has tried to quit in the past, I have no doubt that she has discussed some of these options with her doctors. Nonetheless, I will mention these to her when I next speak to her.

    The Wolf

    #759057

    Health
    Participant

    “She has serious and long-term conditions that are completely unrelated to smoking.”

    Really? If you don’t mind me asking -which ones? Smoking is usually the cause or exacerbates many long-term conditions.

    #759059

    Health
    Participant

    Always here – “it can cause defects in children” .. sorry, not factual.”

    I’ll assume you are just ignorant, not one of those smokers in denial.

    From the CDC:

    “The dangers of smoking during pregnancy include premature birth, certain birth defects, and infant death. Even being around cigarette smoke puts a woman and her baby at risk for problems.”

    #759060

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Really? If you don’t mind me asking -which ones? Smoking is usually the cause or exacerbates many long-term conditions.

    I’m not at liberty to say. Trust me when I say that she would have had a long and complicated medical history even if she never smoked a single cigarette in her life. The fact that she does smoke adds additional problems, of course, but her main medical problems cannot be laid at the doorstep of tobacco.

    The Wolf

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