July 18, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #787668
while i do enjoy reading some posts where i am able to learn something i do not enjoy reading the insulting and degrading ones. i would like to ask that the moderator not post those that insult others here or others levels of religiousity.
people are different. people in your own circles are not carbon copies of yourself.
i have a number of friends who told me they stopped reading posts here for exactly what i am writing in this post.
before internet was available tehre was plenty loshon hora and sinas chinam. however, it appears to me taht there is more now as people can find nasty things to say at the click of a button.
mods, i respectfully request that demeaning, insulting posts be deleted and not posted in the future.
a little less hatred won’t be a bad thingJuly 18, 2011 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #787669
600 Kilo BearMember
Depends what you are going to see. I haven’t been to any movie screening except Ushpizin in a good 7 years, so I have no idea what’s out there. I would see a film similar to the film I last remember seeing (the one about the code breakers in WW2) again with no shame if I had the time and actually bothered to find out when and where it was playing. On the other hand, if you are going to see something knowing it isn’t 100%, better not to advertise you are going to see it.July 18, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #787670
I go to the movies on occasion the theater i go to is smack dab in the center of our frum community i have no qualms about going into the theater with a Yarmulke on.July 18, 2011 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #787672
I’m taking my son to see the film “Winnie the Pooh”…we will both be wearing Yamulkas and Tzisus too!July 18, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #787673
Lots of people wear Yarmukas to baseball games in fact the have MINYANIM there as well (As least the Mets do , I am not sure about the Yankees since I am not a Yankee fan and dont go to their games)
I think the Football Giants also have Minyanim there as well
MINYANIM would not be allowed in a treif placeJuly 18, 2011 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #787674
Thank you mikehall for your post about not having learned anything from the past week. I was about to say the same thing.
And I agree with mewho that those insulting posts should be removed.July 18, 2011 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #787675
You espouse ideas such as jews should not have computers, should have only special cell phones, that jews should not go to movies ever and you wonder why most of the Israel Nation has nothing to do with our Laws that you are perverting with your perversion of justice.
So what you feel is that we should ignore all halacha so that nobody should find it difficult to be “religious”?
BTW, did you really see anyone post that Jews shouldn’t have computers?July 18, 2011 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #787676
Right the Halacha of the IBM pc. Let me look that one up!!!!!!!July 18, 2011 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #787679
Anyone have access to look up what Rav Moshe wrote in his teshuva?July 18, 2011 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #787680
Gavra, You know what Deuteronomy says. See Deut 28. It says anyone who does not obey any particular law will be Cursed. That is a fact. It will effect your life and your well being. But the halacha that is continuing to evolve may or may not be exactly the Laws of our Torah that we adhere to. So if someone say refuses to wear tzitzis in public, that is a curse on his life.
My life is better today becuase I obey the laws of Moses.July 18, 2011 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #787681
mewho…great post, we need more of thisJuly 18, 2011 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #787683
Avram in MDParticipant
basket of radishes,
I follow Jewish law that makes sense
Refraining from eating pork makes no sense to the human intellect, so would you throw that out?
Do you honestly think that you can sit in judgement of our Torah and decide for yourself what makes sense and what doesn’t?
You claim to be far from “reform”, but your ideology 100% fits the bill, or perhaps you are a Karaite?July 18, 2011 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #787685
“In what way were they different and how is that relevant?”
Pagan religious ceremonies were an integral part of the program. That is VERY relevant.
An additional problem is that a common feature of the circuses (not the theaters) was gladiatorial games in which the gladiators fought to the death. I’ve seen sources that indicate that Jews were in at least some cases encouraged to attend these horrible events in order to plea *en masse* for the gladiator’s life, as it was often the sentiment of the crowd that determined the fate of a defeated gladiator. Unfortunately, many Jews were enslaved as gladiators by the Romans after korban bayit sheni.July 18, 2011 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #787686
I’d wear one, but it makes the shkotzim I go with feel uncomfortableJuly 18, 2011 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #787687
” I am not sure about the Yankees”
I have davened with a minyan at Yankee Stadium during games.
‘So what you feel is that we should ignore all halacha so that nobody should find it difficult to be “religious”?’
There is no halachah that prohibits computers, cell phones, or movies. A lot of their *material* might be asur, but all three media can also be used to spread Torah!
“Do you not wear a Yarmulka during the National Anthem?”
Yes, I wear a yarmulke almost everywhere. I’m even wearing it in Europe right now.July 18, 2011 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #787688
Many people use the internet for work.
I know some technical people who are very frum, I wondered if I should send them an article on a topic we were researching. But they often use technical knowledge web sites which have some general advertising as well. And if you start surfing for answers to technical questions you are bound to see something that you should be not be.Anyway the link was something like ‘HTML5 Does not Suck’. I debated if i should send them the link like that.
Maybe I am naive but I decided not to. it happened to be a perfect link for us, but I wasn’t sure.July 18, 2011 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #787691
Right the Halacha of the IBM pc. Let me look that one up!!!!!!!
I repeat, did you really see anyone post that Jews shouldn’t have computers?July 18, 2011 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #787692
charlie: The theaters didn’t contain much pagan ritual, but they did contain poetry recital. Can you imagine any Jew — or anyone at all today — going to watch someone recite Catullus with gestures? And speaking of using modern communications tech for Torah, there will be a public hangout on google+ tomorrow night learning Hilchos Beis Habechirah. It will run from 8pm till the end of the fast.
Droid: You seem to be a yodea sefer, look it up yourself.July 18, 2011 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #787693
Daas, I tried to post this earlier, but I was not permitted to by the moderators. Maybe I can post some of it again. In my community there is a large community that is told they are not allowed to own a computer. They must go to the library to use a computer.July 19, 2011 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #787694
Zahavasdad – Who is supposed to ban the minyan? The Eida Chareidis of Citi Field? The minyan is “allowed” by the security guards. I am willing to bet that if you ask an Rov where you should daven, game vs Shul, they would say Shul.
I have davened at Busch Stadium in St Louis, but so what? Doesn’t make it right or wrong. And does not have anything to do with wearing a Yarmulka either!
The fact that Jews make a minyan there just shows that they want to have their “Gashmius” while not ignoring their “Ruchniyus”. It just eliminates the issue of missing minyan b/c of a game.
But the Minyan does not make the game/stadium into a “Frum” outing/event at all.July 19, 2011 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #787695
Since there are Minyanim at Mets , Yankees , Football Giants and likely Baltimore Orioles and Florida Marlins games
Since one is not permitted to daven in a treif place….July 19, 2011 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #787696
In the winter, there is a ski hill up north (Montreal) that has a minyan…taking three steps back and foward is a bit tricky with ski boots, but it can be done…July 19, 2011 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #787697
HTML5 Does not Suck
I believe our resident expert in the non-suckiness of HTML5 would be our own ZachKessin, who recently authored an O’Reilly book on the subject.
The WolfJuly 19, 2011 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #787698
So if the game isn’t treif and can have a minyan, then why not wear a Yarmulka?
Or to go back to this topic, how is the game example any contradiction or a proof agaisnt what I said about “being embarrassed” wear it in a place as a sign not to enter the place?July 19, 2011 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #787699
And have you ever consulted a Rov about davening at a game?
Davening in a place that has cheering/cursing all around you, smells of beer and has ladies walking around half dressed doesn’t sound so Kosher either!
Again, just b/c “its done” doesn’t mean its right.July 19, 2011 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #787700
GeshmakMan…I don’t think you have ever been to a ball game. What you describe is not the case as you portray it…
How is this different then daveining is a parking lot at a major rest area, airport, or anywhere else I’ve seen minyans that are outside a shul/home?
Our mission here is to elevate the mundane, to infuse the ordinary with holliness…forming a minyan and deveining at a ball game, side of the road, or an airport does just that…July 19, 2011 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #787701
Mikehall – I have probably been to over 400 games (i have the stubs to prove them), however this is not about the “Kedusha” at the Meadowlands or gate D at Jets games or Yankees RedSox playoffs or the bleacher creatures being frum. I agree with you, there is NO difference between this or an airport, etc.
All I said was “if you are embarrased to go to a place with a Yarmulka, you probably shouldn’t be going there at all”
And the response was “Would you be embarrassed to walk into a baseball game where there sell KOSHER FOOD (The employees at the stand usually wear kippot)”
How is that an answer?? Why are people embarrassed to wear Yarmulkas at games?
I have worn my yarmulka at times (at least the National Anthem) to the World Series, NBA and NHL Finals – I am still trying to
figure out the connection between games and being embarrassed to wear a Yarmulka – somebody please help!
And lets be honest – the crowd isn’t exactly Kosher 🙂 VERY FUN but NOT Kosher!July 19, 2011 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #787702
A minyan at a baseball game is like a minyan in back of an airplane. It can be done, but in most cases you are better off davening B’Yechidus when you get home.
There are of course exceptions. An empty Camden Yards on a weeknight has plenty of places where you can gather a minyan and no one will bother you while you daven (I don’t know about the NY stadiums).July 19, 2011 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #787703
GeshmakMan….i’m not embarrased to wear a yamulkah to a ball game or movie…and I agree if you are embarrassed to wear one then you shopuldn’t go period.
PS your lucky you’ve gone to so many games…July 19, 2011 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #787704
Mikehall – thank you for agreeing 🙂
I was just trying to figure out the connection between baseball games and minyanim to being embarrassed to wear a Kippa in certain public places.
Don’t know if am “lucky” to have gone, but it has been a fun ride!
Maybe I’ll take you and you can show me all the fans that DON’T Curse and the ladies that actually wear clothes 🙂July 19, 2011 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #787705
bor – You espouse ideas such as jews should not have computers
I repeat your quote (with emphasis) to point out that you seemed not to be addressing people in your community, but rather someone or ones on this forum.
Do these people claim that it’s assur to have a computer, or to have an internet connection?July 19, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #787706
Sorry, I don’t mean to indicate that that is the way of our people. I wish to indicate that there are people today who are forbidding the Jew in their community to use certain forms of media. I have also seen a number of articles in the last few years telling that we can not use the internet on VIN, YWN and Matzav. I am aware that many in the yeshiva education system are forbidden from having an internet connection and are forbidden from using this sort of Modern day computer internet connection.
I may see that there are certain groups, perhaps those in a very structured yeshiva who the teachers and leaders do not wish to be exposed to outside ideas while they are in their programs. For someone in a yeshiva, I believe that as illiberal as the idea of no computer is, it is within the rights of the yeshiva to enforce this but that our children should also have the right to use a computer if they so choose. It may make it that people will no longer pursue that particular yeshiva and that is the democratic process. But if it works for that sort of community, I am not going to be one to interfere.
But for me as a Jew to want to use the internet and other media, I feel that is my G-d given right. And sadly, it may make me someone on the outskirts of a religious community in some places, but that is my choice. I am well served as an American and Jew by having access to the online information.
they claim that it is assur to have a computer period. I have a friend who has to go to the public library to use the computer for even a simple thing such as learning to type.July 19, 2011 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #787707
basket of radishes…I don’t know why I think this but for some reason I think you live in Iowa…July 19, 2011 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #787708
I’m a midwesterner but another part of America.July 19, 2011 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #787709
I feel that is my G-d given right
What are G-d given rights? Where/When did he give them to us? Is there a rishon that codified them somewhere?July 19, 2011 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #787710
Derech HaMelech. I believe that our Creator has indeed made the provisions in our society for science to flourish. I do not believe that Hashem wants us to not use these advances in our lives. I say this is my G-d given right becuase I am a human being living in this era that Hashem Created me to live in. So therefore, G-d gives me the right to live in today’s society and use todays media and scientific advances.July 19, 2011 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #787711
Basket… I pegged you for a midwesternerJuly 19, 2011 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #787712
“Theaters and circuses did not exist in ancient Egypt.”
I did not say that they did.
“taking three steps back and foward is a bit tricky with ski boots, but it can be done”
Correct for downhill boots. But with cross country skis it is easy. I’ve davened minchah many times while on cross country skis. Now if I could just get enough other Jews interested in cross country skiing….
“And have you ever consulted a Rov about davening at a game?”
I’ve davened at Yankee Stadium WITH rabbis!
“A minyan at a baseball game is like a minyan in back of an airplane.”
No, a minyan at the back of an airplane creates serious safety concerns if the plane is at all full. My flight to Europe last week was 3/4 empty but that was a rarity and I don’t think there were any other Jews on the plane — certainly none with a yarmulke.
“What are G-d given rights? Where/When did he give them to us? Is there a rishon that codified them somewhere?”
The “rishon” was named Thomas Jefferson, and he codified some of them in the U.S. Declaration of Independence. But it should be noted that Jefferson, who was not a Christian by any reasonable definition, was quite hostile to any and all organized religions. (He was neither an anti-Semite nor an atheist, though.) But Judaism doesn’t really speak of rights but of responsibilities. While the principles of the U.S. Declaration of Independence helped to create a country in which Jews are as well treated as at any time or place in our long galut — and in fact most of the small Jewish community here were enthusiastic supporters of the new Republic — we should not fall into the trap of thinking that Jefferson’s ideas represent Torah thinking.July 19, 2011 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #787713
I do not believe that Hashem wants us to not use these advances in our lives.
Is it within the realm of possibility that He created these advances in science as a way of testing us- much the same way as Adam was tested with the Tree of Knowledge that G-d created?
So therefore, G-d gives me the right to live in today’s society and use todays media and scientific advances.
But why do you use the word “right” instead of “option”?July 20, 2011 12:11 am at 12:11 am #787714
DHM- I do not understand your philosophy or how you can contain your ideas of Hashems intent in todays society. I am from a moderate community and I feel that this world was created with a purpose. I do not think that HASHEM created say the automobile to test us and see if we might move to a new location that we can visit you from car now. I disagree that this modern world is a mistake. And of course, I am not going to be like the amish. Perhaps you can argue that the modern conveniences are an option and not a right. That about puts you at par with the Amish in my sight.July 20, 2011 12:56 am at 12:56 am #787715
The only thing Jews have in community with the Amish is the dark suits and hats 😉July 20, 2011 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #787716
I don’t know too much about the Amish, but Jews do not have anything against technology, it’s the dangers of how it might be used which is a concern.
I’m sure there are certain bits of technology which you would agree not to use, the argument is how far to take it. G-d didn’t give us the right to use automatic weapons in a shopping mall, although we have the option. The existence of technology is by no means evidence that G-d intended for us to use it.
One could argue that He wants it to be used, but by whom and in what manner is up to our good judgement.
BTW, your profile says where you’re from.July 20, 2011 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #787717
I have no idea how to look at someones profile or edit one.
I am sure you are aware we are not talking about murder on our discussion of computers, bicycles and other things that were not here 400 years ago.July 20, 2011 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #787718
I have no idea how to look at someones profile or edit one.
I am sure you are aware we are not talking about murder on our discussion of computers, bicycles and other things that were not here 400 years ago.
I’ll help you on the profile editing, if you want.
No, we’re not discussing murder, I was using an example. There are things besides murder which our Creator has proscribed, and the advent of technology is not a retraction on His part.July 20, 2011 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #787719
Well I can edit the profile. but I did not know that that information was publically available as I can not seem to figure out how to look up someones profile yet.July 20, 2011 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #787720
*Substitute the actual username. It won’t work if the active screen name has been changed.
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