Where are the Manhigim?

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  • #965952

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    GAW -“they have to show they are part of the community, or the “community” will not be interested in funding them.”

    Most people in Mea Shearim don’t want to be part of the Israeli/Zionist community and don’t take their money.

    Wrong community. If Gimmel wants Tzioni moeny, they have to show that they support the soldiers against the Baryonim. If not, then the state is correct in not giving money to those who do not support it.

    “Here in the US, the Agudah regularly puts out statements. Let the Moetzes or the even the Gimmel party put out a “statement”.”

    You can want all you want, but if they don’t – it doesn’t make it wrong.

    I’m not arguing that it does. I’m not saying Satmar should put out a statement supporting the Tzionim either. It simply shows which “side” Gimmel is on.

    Once again, I would like to hear what “HaKatan” has to say.

    #965953

    zahavasdad
    Participant
    #965954

    Health
    Participant

    GAW -“Wrong community. If Gimmel wants Tzioni moeny, they have to show that they support the soldiers against the Baryonim. If not, then the state is correct in not giving money to those who do not support it.”

    For this community -you are correct. I didn’t realize you were talking about them. I personally am more to the Right.

    #965955

    acron
    Participant

    gavra: American communists who support Fidel Castro, Kim Jong Un, Hugo Chavez, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are entitled to all the freedoms of our democracy and if financially necessary are fully entitled to the full welfare benefits. Even if they are anti-capitalist, oppose the American military and all its wars, and oppose the all American governments. That is how a democracy works. It is completely legal to be a communist.

    So like them, Gimmel can take funding and oppose the government. And like the American commies, they can run to participate in the parliment and coalition government. And like anti-capitalists, they can advocate and push for laws, as elected lawmakers, that benefit their communities. Much like the American welfare laws are designed to benefit certain minority communities.

    #965956

    adams
    Participant

    I lived for 2 years in Beis Yisroel section, this is adjacent to MS.

    I heard many children practicing screaming their nasty anti Jewish slogans. Every Motzai Shabbos the neighbors kids started.

    This is the development of the hatred culture, now we see the results. And this is not the same as the Amish crook. We have stam criminals also in the Chareidishe world. These are total sinas CHinam, and that is supposed to mean something to us, not to equivalize with an Amish horse thief.

    The issue is, we hear constantly how much bettter the Chareidim consider themselves than the Tziyonim and stam Jews. I read it all the time in the Yated Nee’man. How they put down others. Calling them spiritual wasteland and other epithets. And now we see that the Charidi society needs alot of cleansing. and people make this point and then the name calling starts, ‘your’e a chareidi basher’. It’s more important to realize the flaws in your own community.

    #965957

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s more important to realize the flaws in your own community.

    You do realize the sad irony in that statement, don’t you?

    #965959

    Daas2
    Member

    GAW:

    “do you agree that the “chalmis” condone the attack?”

    Quoted from another news site:

    “The leading ultra-Orthodox newspaper Hapeles has said that, while it does not condone violence, it is throwing its support behind the current campaign aimed at delegitimizing Haredis choosing to serve in the IDF.”

    Hapeles is a newspaper catering to the segment of the Chareidi population to the right of R’ Shteinman (R’ Shmuel Auerbach followers, Briskers, and Yerushalmis). Even Neturei Karta only released a statement in support of non-physical attacks against “chardakim”. So no, I do not believe that any significant part of Chareidi society is condoning physical attacks against anyone.

    “If Gimmel wants Tzioni moeny, they have to show that they support the soldiers against the Baryonim. If not, then the state is correct in not giving money to those who do not support it.”

    I’m not sure why you think a government is justified in cutting off all funds to any group that does not support its policies… would you similarly advocate cutting the funds of all DL institutions that came out against the Disengagement?

    adams:

    “we hear constantly how much bettter the Chareidim consider themselves than the Tziyonim and stam Jews… How they put down others. Calling them spiritual wasteland and other epithets. And now we see that the Charidi society needs alot of cleansing.”

    And that isn’t “considering yourself bettter” and “putting down others” because…?

    #965960

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Daas2: I’m glad to hear it (regarding HaPeles). I have no problem with non-violence, as long as it does not incite. That being said, as a Jew I have a problem with one Yid calling another a cockroach (especially because there are those who are incited by such towards violence, but even without it. Yidden shouldn’t call other yidden Parasites (from either side).). If they called them “Avaryanim” or removed them from schools, I would have fewer Taynos.

    I’m not sure why you think a government is justified in cutting off all funds to any group that does not support its policies… would you similarly advocate cutting the funds of all DL institutions that came out against the Disengagement?

    That was not a disagreement whether there should be a state or not, but regarding the policies of the state. If they had come out that the state (or its institutions) should be disobeyed, then yes (IIRC, some of the hesder yeshivos were kicked out of the program for that reason).

    As an FYI, my “feeling” is that you are Joe as well. Mods, you want to take a look into that?

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