Should teachers/rebbis get a full time salary?

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  • #1565238

    Curiosity
    Participant

    …if they don’t typically work 45 hour weeks with only 10-15 days vacation per year, like every other profession? I know that educating our children is important, etc., but that doesn’t justify a $50k/year salary (not to mention a nice pension in some states) for working what would otherwise be considered a part-time job, if it were not in the field of education.

    #1565326

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    They work after hours too.

    #1565327

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Why do musicians feel like they deserve money every time the song is bought when they performed it only once in a recording studio?

    #1565332

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Supply and demand. How many hours a day do teachers work on average?

    #1565335

    I think they keep the same hours as we do.

    #1565337

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Supply and demand.

    Maybe the question is on us – why don’t we value our children’s Jewish education enough to pay their rebbeim and moros a fair wage commiserate with the value they are providing?

    As far as part time=low salary, tell that to professional athletes who work half a year and get paid millions.

    Instead of bashing those who may very well be the ticket to our Olam Habo, perhaps learn to appreciate the tremendous skill and dedication which the vast majority of mechanchim bring.

    BTW, most mechanchim I know take summer jobs out of financial necessity, despite the fact that the intense nature of their jobs takes an emotional and physical toll well beyond the hours they spend in the classroom, and they could really use the break to recharge.

    #1565344

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Teachers work less than half of what normal 9-5’ers work. There’s no reason to believe throwing more money at them would make education better.

    #1565348

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The problem in this whole yeshiva tution crisis is that the Rebbes deserve to get paid and the Parents cannot afford the tutiton so there is a cash crunch

    Are their parents who can pay more and dont? Of course, but they are not the majorty and even if a parent spluges a little it doesnt mean they should drop the “luxury” and pay more. Should one drive a 20 year old beat up Chevy instead of a late model Honda Accord. Should one move to a smaller apartment to save money.

    Maybe people should eat cheaper foods and pay higher tution and even if the parents take a vacation, Most vacations arent as luxirious as you think. You can spend $500-$1000 for a vacation that isnt going to make a big different, but it might help the sanity of the parents a little

    #1565355

    refoelzeev
    Participant

    I don’t know why you assume that they don’t work a regular full time amount. If anything they work overtime.

    #1565356

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Most rabeim know what they are getting into before taking on the jib just like a kollel guy knows what hes getting into before joining the kollel which pays very minimal.
    Perhaps we should consider paying the kollel guy top dollar because after all hes learning torah all day and that is the ikar. Why should only rabeim be privileged for a high salary?
    Why are moros and women teaches not entitled to higher pay?.
    Bottom line, if you want higher pay then go get a higher paying job. Besides, arent we taught that you only make what is determined At rosh hashana? So why denand a higher salary? If hashem want you to get more money he will figure out a way to do it.

    #1565369

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Why no similar “rant” when Lebron James recently signed a 4 year contract with the Lakers for an average salary of $38,000,000 a season. Given that the basketball season is 82 games of 48 minutes a game, he is making in excess of $575,000 an HOUR.

    You dont fargin a teacher who works 20 hours a week (likely even more if teaches every day 5 days a week) for 36 weeks 50k a year (less than $70 an hour).

    The basketball player makes 8200 times per hour more than the teacher, and for the teacher you deem it necessary to spew your stupid rant?

    #1565390

    Curiosity
    Participant

    DY – Nobody is “bashing” anything. It’s a frank question, but not intended to demean the importance of quality teachers – the quality part being lacking.

    Athletes – again, supply and demand. If you want a quality quarterback who can compete in the NFL you need to find natural talent, good genetics, and extreme athleticism. Also, they spend thousands of hours doing intense training the other half of the year in order to perform successfully, and you have hundreds of thousands of people paying tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to watch a team of a handful of players. Supply and demand.

    By the way, it is completely halachically assur for rabbeim to charge money for the teaching of Torah. Torah knowledge cannot be monetized, halachically. The payment afforded to rabbeim is only muttar because of the necessary loophole of schar hefsed. Which means that you are essentially paying them for lost wages of the job they would otherwise be doing if they were not teaching Torah. Therefore, the payment is commiserate with the value of what would be deemed an average compensation, not with the value of the Torah learning, because then you’d be right – טוב לי תורת פיך מאלפי זהב וכסף.

    To your last point – Good! They should be taking summer jobs to balance out their yearly wages. I think that’s fair. I just don’t think they should complain for having to do that. How many social workers deal with traumatizing situations all year round for about the same or less than a teacher’s annual salary and don’t get 3 months off?

    #1565431

    make a point
    Participant

    When a teacher goes home, they check homework, prepare lessons, call/email parents, deal with your child’s therapists. Which leaves them no time to work a second job. Hence they should get paid the full time salary. Of course there’s the vacations, even though they arent working , they can’t get another job because of their loyalties to your child.
    If a rebbe works a summer job, then when he gets upset at you child in November, you are the first to scream he’s burnt out and is taking it out on my child…..
    That’s why a rebbe deserves a full time salary

    #1565479

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    … they can’t get another job because of their loyalties to your child.
    If a rebbe works a summer job, then when he gets upset at you child in November, you are the first to scream he’s burnt out and is taking it out on my child…..
    That’s why a rebbe deserves a full time
    salary..
    ——————————–
    Fake news!

    #1565480

    The little I know
    Participant

    DY:

    Your comment sounds really nice and caring, but the assumptions are often untrue. There are many mechanchim who are worth their weight in gold, providing excellent service, benefiting our children so greatly, and are seriously and unfairly underpaid. There are also way too many who should not be in the field altogether. Their talents and gifts of skills lie elsewhere, and they pursue chinuch because it does “pas” to do anything else. That is sinful, and actually punishes the children with an incompetent rebbe/teacher, drains the yeshiva budget by directing wages to the undeserving, and possibly hurts the reputation of the yeshiva by providing inferior services. These incompetents are not the kids’ key to Olam Haboh. Quite contrary, they are potential contributors to the children finding the Torah world an uncomfortable, even painful place.

    Chinuch is a profession. It involves a set of skills, and should be treated as any profession, preceded by training, the achievement of proficiency, and some form of documentation to be eligible to work in this field. There should also be continued education to expand and improve one’s skills. This has begin to happen, but sadly has not yet become the norm. For those who do their jobs well, they deserve a huge salary plus lots more.

    #1565482

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “By the way, it is completely halachically assur for rabbeim to charge money for the teaching of Torah. ”

    1: The obligation to educate a child, is on the parent, not the rebbe or yeshiva. A parent who chooses to use the school as a shaliach, is obligated to compensate that shliach for their time.

    2: Why assume the Rebbe is “charging” anything. When was the last time a Rebbe or Morah sent you a bill?

    3: Supply and Demand? So, where is the readily available supply of teachers willing to put in 25 hour weeks for 35k a year? If it existed, the schools would hire them in droves, (assuming the parent body would go along with it – the demand side of the equation).

    #1565487

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Therefore, the payment is commiserate with the value of what would be deemed an average compensation”

    Unless you consider a Walmart cashier, or fast food employee “average compensation”, how is giving an experienced Rebbe or Morah 50k a year, above average. From the website teachnyc.net (look under salary and benefits). Based on this info, I would say 50k, without benefits is at best the lower end of the average compensation.

    SALARY & BENEFITS
    Make a living doing what you love. All teachers in New York City public schools receive a professional salary and competitive benefits package, earning more for additional experience and coursework, or for taking on new responsibilities.

    SALARIES
    For 2018-19, starting salaries for teachers will range from $56,711 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $85,794 (master’s degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). New teachers with a master’s degree but no prior teaching experience will earn $63,751. Teachers’ salaries increase each year for more experience as well as education.

    #1565488

    5ish
    Participant

    Firstly, the melamed is paid for not being able to maintain a full time job because he is a melamed. This is written explicitly in Shulchan Aruch. You are not paying him for the hours he spent learning with your child. You are paying him because in order to teach your child he must forego a parnassa.

    Secondly, the reason no one can afford to pay tuition is because tuition is not just money going to teachers. There are a hundred different schools and each one is building a building and paying for other infrastructural costs. Once upon a time a select few learned in yeshivos, of which there were only a few, and other people learned in the city beis midrash/shul or in a small place with a melamed. But now you are paying for the bus to pick up your children, the myriad projects and field trips, the air conditioner and utilities, insurance costs, and everything else.

    In any case, Shulchan Aruch says explicitly the community should tax rich people to ensure that the children of people who cannot pay schar limud are educated. The fact that there can be such a thing that a child will not be in school because his parents cannot afford it is against Hashem’s Torah and it doesn’t help that every mosad will wipe their hands because, “so let someone else take him. it isn’t my personal responsibility.” The entire tzibbur is guilty and will be guilty rachmana letzlan when whatever happens happens because a Jewish child was not given a Torah education.

    #1565490

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Make a point – I’ve never screamed that. I don’t even have children. It should not be the parents’ business what teachers do in their free time, as long as it isn’t illegal, unethical, or morally reprehensible. Parents shouldn’t have a say in how teachers make ends meet to pay their bills. That still doesn’t mean teachers are underpaid for their time. You’re saying they just feel they need 3+ months to recuperate from the stress of their job. Maybe we just need a week of mandatory resilience training and therapy for teachers?

    #1565499

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Apushatayid-
    I don’t disagree with you for the most part. With regard to point 3 – why do teachers become teachers if don’t think it’s worth it and then complain about supposedly getting underpaid?
    Either:
    A) They really think it is worth it when considering all the added perks associated with the job.
    B) They are guilted into it or feel they don’t have a choice.
    C) They think it’s their calling/tafkid and do it for altruistic reasons, but then get into the job, realize they need more money to afford their lifestyle, refuse to work during summers, and start complaining.
    If it’s A, don’t complain. If it’s B, don’t be a teacher, (because you’ll probably not be a very good one with that kind of attitude). If it’s C, exercise some responsibility for your life choices and work a summer job.

    #1565500

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Curiosity,

    “…if they don’t typically work 45 hour weeks with only 10-15 days vacation per year, like every other profession? I know that educating our children is important, etc., but that doesn’t justify a $50k/year salary (not to mention a nice pension in some states) for working what would otherwise be considered a part-time job, if it were not in the field of education.”

    Supply and demand: If educators indeed received “full time” pay and benefits for a “part time” job, then there would be droves of people breaking down the door to be teachers. We do not see this. Why?

    A 40 hour workweek over 50 weeks in a year comes out to around 2000 hours worked. A teacher works more like 40 weeks out of the year, but puts in closer to 10 hours of work per day, which comes out to a 50 hour workweek. Also 2000 hours. So you’re essentially kvetching about 50*40 vs. 40*50.

    And the pay gap between teaching and other professions increases quite a bit when factoring in years worked.

    #1565501

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Apushatayid-
    With regards to your first post: You are comparing the salary of one of the top earners in the NBA, a selection of the best athletes in the world, to the salary of an average citizen. That’s not how basic economics work in a capitalist society. Maybe in the Communist USSR.

    #1565502

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If you think Rebbes are paid too much, look at girls schools teachers. they are paid even less

    #1565530

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Why do teachers/rebbis feel they deserve a full time salary?”

    the real answer is: this is what the profession pays. look at the treachnyc website for starting salary information. public school teachers work no more than the average full time rebbe/teacher in a yeshiva.

    #1565532

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “So why denand a higher salary? If hashem want you to get more money he will figure out a way to do it.”
    The sick truth is that I don’t hear teacher’s demanding better pay – I hear NON teachers complaining that they don’t deserve it. And when the complaints come from people who don’t even have kids or have kids in the system, what business do you even have opening your mouth about it?

    #1565531

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “Teachers work less than half of what normal 9-5’ers work. There’s no reason to believe throwing more money at them would make education better.”

    Neville – this comment is not just demeaning but ignorant. If you would like to believe that your minimal exposure-relative to the actual amount of teacher’s out there – warrants such a definitive statement than you are not who you used to be. If you would like to narrow it down to the relatively miniscule group you have actually and objectively researched, then say so. No need to degrade an entire population of teachers.

    #1565529

    apushatayid
    Participant

    ” look at girls schools teachers. they are paid even less”
    probably because there is a glut of post seminary girls who will take the job at that salary for a year or 2 until she gets married and moves to lakewood, when there will be a line of post seminary girls waiting to take her job.

    #1565513

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @DY
    @curiosity

    the word is COMMENSURATE:
    com·men·su·rate
    kəˈmensərət,kəˈmenSHərət/Submit
    adjective
    corresponding in size or degree; in proportion.
    “salary will be commensurate with experience”
    synonyms: equivalent, equal, corresponding, correspondent, comparable, proportionate, proportional
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    People who commiserate have the same negative feelings about something. Take a look at how commiserate is built: it’s from Latin “com-,” which means “together with,” and miserārī, “to pity.” Put them together, and you get “to pity one another, commiserate.”

    Underpaid Yeshiva and Day School staff often commiserate about their small and often late paychecks.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Time for better English instruction in American Yeshivos and Day Schools

    #1565539

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “Time for better English instruction in American Yeshivos and Day Schools”
    Hi CTL – I know I’m overreacting a bit but I am tired of the trashing. Considering you have no idea where those two were schooled it was uncalled for. For all you know they are converts who had attended the highest quality catholic private school in the country. Or better yet, one of those top notch public schools with an education that we can only dream of getting for our own kids.

    #1565528

    apushatayid
    Participant

    ” I don’t even have children.”

    There you have it. someone who doesnt even have kids, has zero clue what teachers do, is complaining about teachers. About sums up this thread.

    “You are comparing the salary of one of the top earners in the NBA”
    OK, lets take the LOWEST paid player in the NBA. Under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement between the owners and players, the MINIMUM salary for a player with ZERO years experience is just over $562,000. TEN times what you are kvetching about what a teacher might make.

    either way, my point was not how much Lebron James is making, rather, it was your lack of a rant about his salary. unless of course you find nothing obscene about that kind of salary for an athlete, in which case, I find it obscene that you think it a chutspah for a teacher to want to be paid 50k a year.

    #1565545

    Curiosity
    Participant

    CTLawyer – I’m familiar with both words, thank you very much. It was a careless mistake. Pardon me if I don’t rough draft, revise, edit, and peer-review my Coffee Room opinions before posting. If you’d like, I can go through all your posts and check for errors before giving you an English lesson, and then presume your educational background before deriding it. But that wouldn’t be very nice or helpful.

    #1565550

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Syag
    My comment about better English instruction was prompted by the battles in NYS to ensure Yeshivos actually teach the required English/general studies hours.
    OOT, no day school would dare skimp on English. Most of the student body goes on to college. The general Jewish community subsidizes the day schools through Federation allocations.

    #1565562

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    All I can say is, those bashing teachers and rebbe’s have absolutely no idea what the job entails. It’s not a part-time job by any stretch of the imagination.

    I was a yeshiva teacher for over a decade. I don’t envy the rebbes. It’s a tremendous amount of work with little money, no job security and no respect.

    Most people working for companies get to start their day at 9 and end it at 5, come hell or high water they’re gone.

    Teachers need to prepare for their class every night. They have to mark tests, speak to parents, therapists and school administration after school hours. This happens on a daily bases.

    #1565548

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Syag – Perhaps it bothers me so much as an adult to hear teachers whine about their pay because back when I was in school, a few of my rabbeim would jokingly complain on a regular basis about their low $40k-50k salary. It was a running self-deprecating joke by the rabbeim that they do not make any money – hardy har har. This seemed particularly cruel to me since at the time I was growing up in a home with 2 immigrant parents who, despite working multiple jobs, only earned about $35k annually, combined. My parents didn’t have a choice – they didn’t speak English. These rabbeim had a choice. Don’t make a decision and then whine about the consequences.

    #1565601

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “… when I was in school, a few of my rabbeim would jokingly complain on a regular basis about their low $40k-50k salary.”
    Did they actually complain about their $40k-50k salary, or did they complain about their salary and YOU decided they were making $40k-50k?
    Do you really think you are justified in such a harsh condemning expression toward an entire profession because of the bad experiences you had in one place in one point in time? Would that possibly fit the definition of whining?
    Lastly, you are correct that those teachers were wrong. Very wrong. There is no excuse for being ungrateful and it is even worse to hurt a young student (and not even know you are doing so). But I haven’t met teachers who make that much money. Not a decade ago, and not now. If they do by you, that doesn’t mean they all do.

    To whomever said that ridiculous statement about social workers working all year and making less, my colleagues who are social workers start at 25% more than a long time rebbe. With summers off.

    #1565598

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I dont think many people here are contributing to Lebron james Salary. he is entitled to get whatever he can (As are rebbes)

    OOT, no day school would dare skimp on English. Most of the student body goes on to college. The general Jewish community subsidizes the day schools through Federation allocations. </me>

    In NYC area, the jewish schools get ZIP, NADA, BUPKAS from the federation, each school is on its own to raise the money

    #1565514

    smart
    Participant

    They are underpaid no matter what their salary is. Do you know what they put up with AFTER they come home?
    Dealing with 30 mother and 30 fathers… Marking papers ..
    Preparing for next day studies… In class discipline, dealing with Neshomas for future Life……
    Principals… Vaad this… Vaad that…. People in shul…
    So how can you compare their job to an,office job,
    where you come home and you are done.
    Think about it….

    #1565652

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Some teachers are overpaid if you steal money from them instead of giving them anything. The schools don’t differentiate enough between good and bad teachers.

    #1565641

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Syag – I don’t believe that not being part of a demographic invalidates my opinion about matters related to a demographic. Just because I’m not pregnant, doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion about abortion. Just because I’m not a fatherless, black inner-city kid, doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion about fatherlessness in the black community. Just because I don’t have child in a Jewish school, doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion about Jewish school teachers’ well known attitudes regarding their salaries.

    And again, I’ve never said $50k/annually is too high. I think teachers ignore the perk that they get to go home early every y and only work 3/4 of the year when they complain – and many teachers do complain. The only valid answer I’ve heard so far is that they have take-home work, but I’m not convinced most teachers do. A lot of schools have established curriculums and the teachers repeat the same material every year, so after the first couple years it gets easier.

    #1565716

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    feel free to have an opinion, but stop trying to push it off as fact. You want to have an opinion on abortion, go ahead. But don’t talk about it like you know the ins and outs when its just an outside opinion.

    You are entitled to have an opinion about everything. Unfortunately, your comments have proven that you are grossly misinformed about what the life of a teacher is really like in most frum schools in the united states (based on experience, info from articles and others and this thread).
    To say the teachers repeat the same material every year so it gets easier is silly. Did you make that up based on personal experience with things you’ve done repeatedly or did you ever actually ask a bunch of teachers?
    Does being off for 7 weeks in the summer, 8 days for sukkos and 10 for pesach REALLY equal working 3/4 of a year? Even your claim that other professions don’t do this is ignorant of the facts. I work in ONE school district where there are psychologists, speech therapists, OT’s, PTs, reading specialists and social workers who are NOT teachers who make $70k-$100k per year working 9,5 months with 12 days off during those months, two weeks off in December, one week off in April and 1 day off EACH month. So how many other professionals (real ones, not the whiny types) are there if you include the entire county, state or country who are earning nd working on a schedule that you said doesn’t exist?

    I’m sorry you were hurt, I really am. Life in my house wasn’t easy financially either. In fact life for my kids isn’t always so easy, but you can’t mow down the good with the bad, and you can’t condemn the whole population 10, or 20 years later.

    #1565823

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Well said, Syag

    #1565945

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Syag, I am not condemning anyone. All I’m saying is that I think teachers undervalue the time they have off and the flexibility of their schedules when they assess their wages, and that those who complain about it should either get a different job, or stop whining about it.

    Also, while I do value your virtue of sympathy, I really have no need for it. This is not something that has bothered me at all for well over a decade. Someone here suggested I have no right to an opinion since I don’t currently have kids in school. So, despite my belief that present irrelevance does not preclude an opinion, I presented the relevance to my life as an anecdote. If I have any virtue at all, it’s knowing and being comfortable with my own subconscious negias. I am not some scarred individual walking through life all pathetic-like and begging for pity. If anything, I still have a strong kesher with the rabbeim in my story. And, despite my offense at their prior comments, I appreciate that they showed me the harsh realities of being underemployed, which steered me away from being a marbitz Torah and motivated me to get a higher education in a STEM field, so I can help support their yeshiva, BS”D.

    #1565949

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Curiosity,

    In short, you’re woefully uninformed about the specifics of the job. It’s not a part-time job. And even if it was, in order for a teacher to be committed to a teaching job, he has to be paid a living wage. Otherwise he’ll find work elsewhere and you’ll be without a teacher. So even if you don’t believe the fact that teachers do work full-time, you’ll still have to pay them a living wage in order for them to actually be there to teach.

    We’re not over paying them. It’s disturbing you think we are.

    Regards to you being a parent in order for you to understand the job, it’s not that we don’t respect your opinion. It’s just that you’re misinformed about the aspects of the job that doesn’t occur at the school setting. Most parents end up speaking to their child’s teacher after school numerous times throughout the year. And if there is any type of problem or issue that has to be discussed on a more personal level, parents are sometimes in contact with their teachers numerous times a week.

    Multiply that by 25 children per class, and many teachers teach multiple classes a day. It’s not a pretty picture.

    It’s possible that the teachers in your life complained for no reason. It’s possible. But they’re definitely not overpaid.

    #1565971

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @zahavasdad

    “In NYC area, the jewish schools get ZIP, NADA, BUPKAS from the federation, each school is on its own to raise the money”

    Sorry, to disagree. I live in Fairfield County, CT…which is the NYC area. For example, the following Day Schools receive funds from Jewish Federation of Stamford: Bi-Cultural Day School (Stamford), Carmel Academy (Greenwich), Jewish High School of CT (Stamford), Gan Yeladim (Chabad pre-school Stamford).

    In New Haven, where I was born and raised, Federation provides financial support (and has for more than 4 decades) to both Southern CT Hebrew Academy/Bais Chanah )Lubavitch and Ezra Academy (conservative).

    Bridgeport no longer has a day school, but when it functioned Hillel Academy received funding from Federation.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    UJA Federation NY does not directly fund day schools, but allocates $1 MIllion per year for day school scholarships. Parents may apply to Federation directly for these funds.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Outside Metro NYC in CT. Day schools/Yeshivos in the Hartford area, Waterbury, Danbury, New London receive funding from local Federations. The OOT Jewish community as a whole understands the importance of these institutions and that they should be available and be funded, not just by the orthodox community.

    #1565958

    Toi
    Participant

    This thread is awful, and anyone disparaging our teachers, Rabbeim, and Moros should be ashamed of themselves. These are the people (speaking in general, not the bad apples) dedicating their lives to helping your children become mature, healthy, productive adults. That you feel the need to discuss how much money you’re comfortable with them making and to question whether they deserve it, calls your character into question, nothing less. Utterly pathetic, totally disheartening. Applying rules of economics to a Rebbi’s salary? Is that what they are? Supply and demand? Are these people are nothing more than providers of a service? You compare them to some boor catching a football, while they’re engaged in the guaranteeing the future of klal yisroel? This thread is astonishing in its audacity. I’m just floored.

    #1565986

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The facts are that teachers are in the class room much less than office workers are in the office.

    You teacher lobbyists are relying on 2 assumptions that you’re presenting as facts: 1) that teachers put in so many hours outside the classroom that it adds up to over 40. 2) that office workers DON’T put in any hours over 40.

    I don’t believe in either of these.

    And, by the way, my comment wasn’t meant to demean teachers. I’m not the one saying they’re doing a poor job. I think they do fine; I just also think they’re compensated fairly based on how many hours they work.

    #1565987

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    By the way, what I’ve been focusing on is the hours worked by secular-studies teachers and public school teachers. Yeshiva Rebbeim work different hours.

    #1565993

    thinkingclearly
    Participant

    A typical rebbi grade 6 and up works daily from 7:45-2:15 (shachris thru mincha) M-TH plus an additional 8 HRs friday and sunday. That is 34 hrs not including prep meetings pta marking tests etc.. Sounds pretty full time.

    #1566005

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Neville,
    Thanks for the concise summary. I agree with your statements.

    Toi,
    It seems you are the one disparaging others here.
    You assume a malicious intent behind the opinions presented here and continue to guilt and demean people who hold those opinions. You are shutting down conversation in a manipulative way because you disagree with the opinions of others by using character attacks instead of reasoning skills. That is just simple bullying and doesn’t strengthen your side of the argument.

    #1566009

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Thinkingclearly – nice point. And at my kids schools it’s even an added 11 for Friday and Sunday.

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