February 28, 2019 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #1687717MistykinsParticipant
Joseph said “Ask yourself the question: Am I dressed in a very specifically Jewish way — in a manner that non-Jews don’t dress and that virtually anyone seeing me will immediately know that I’m Jewish?
If the answer is no, you need to do some soul searching.”
Sorry Joseph, but being in a white shirt doesn’t make you any more Jewish than being in a garage makes you a car. Soul searching has nothing to do with appearance. It has to do with what is in your heart.
A bochur in a colored shirt and (sarcastic C”V) Jeans with a love for the knowledge of the Tanakh shouldn’t be looked down on while a older man in a crisp white shirt and shtreimel who has C”V secretly abused a child or stolen money is respected because he is, as you said, “dressed in a very specifically Jewish way”.February 28, 2019 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1687776apushatayidParticipant
Just think of all those non jewish who work so hard to ensure our yeshiva bachurim, certainly a very tiny slice of the general population, have white shirts to wear. Charles Tyrwhit, Paul Fredrick, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger and many, many, many others.February 28, 2019 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #1687920JosephParticipant
Mistykins: Your point, to put it in a nutshell, is that an average Jewish MO guy is better than a Jewish Mayer Lansky or Bugsy Siegel wearing a white shirt and tie.
But that doesn’t change my original point that an average Jewish fellow (i.e. follows the Torah and is not a criminal) dressed in blatantly Jewish clothing that’ll identify him as JEWISH to anyone with even a little eyesight is better than an average Jewish guy dressed in a colored shirt and jeans, no different than numerous goyim.March 5, 2019 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1689300LucyParticipant
Wearing a white shirt doesnt make you more frum, it makes you more yeshivish. If youd rather be described as very frum and sincere but not yeshivish then go for it.
Cant blame people for assuming youre not part of the greater yeshivah world if you dont dress like you are.March 5, 2019 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1689399The little I knowParticipant
You wrote: “(BTW these Gedolim that only wear white shirts do not c”v conform to “our” (or anyone else’s) standards, rather, they are the ones that set the standards and it is we that try our best to emulate them).”
I’m glad you invoked the word emulate and the concept of emulating the Gedolei Yisroel. What is catastrophic is that we have gotten stuck in emulating the things which are truly quite low on the ranks of what makes them Gedolei Yisroel. Have we considered first to emulate their hasmodoh? Maybe their midos? Maybe their strong emunoh and bitachon? How about their humility? We flipped things upside down, and are more concerned in dressing as they do, while the other things are expected to follow automatically. That’s not even funny on Purim.
Can you picture a matzeivoh that speaks of the virtues of the niftar buried below as someone who wore a white shirt? Do you recall a circulating photo, allegedly of a sign posted in a Lakewood beis hamedrash stating that the chometz was sold to a “real” goy who wore a colored shirt.
Have we really sunk that low?
I personally hold from chitzoniyus. But making it the symbol of the internal is inaccurate, and misleading.March 5, 2019 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1689434bk613Participant
“What is catastrophic is that we have gotten stuck in emulating the things which are truly quite low on the ranks of what makes them Gedolei Yisroel.”
I don’t think anyone here would argue with you that we shouldn’t emulate the middos, hasmoda, etc of gedolim. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t emulate there dress too. The attributes you mentioned take years to properly develop while emulating their dress is much simpler.March 5, 2019 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1689469👑RebYidd23Participant
Should soldiers imitate the uniforms of those of higher rank?March 5, 2019 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #1689486The little I knowParticipant
“The attributes you mentioned take years to properly develop while emulating their dress is much simpler.”
So what is accomplished by emulating their dress?
Let’s return to the question of the OP. “Why does wearing a white shirt make you more frum in the yeshivish world? Simple answer – it gives such an impression, based on a belief system (quite a faulty one). In reality, the color of shirt matters more to the one doing the laundry.March 10, 2019 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1692318The AlterParticipant
The CC yeshivos wear colored shirts and they have a strait mesorah from Slaodka.March 10, 2019 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #1692378RavDovidHOCKERZParticipant
this question is shtus, would you rather us walk around in jeans and a t-shirt?March 11, 2019 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1693206
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