Why isn't coffee or chocolate kitniyos?

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  • #1251904

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Bump

    #1251963

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    Wild rice is another example of people making things Kitynot that isnt. Wild rice is a GRASS not a rice, the only thing it has in common with rice is the name and it sort of looks like rice, but its a GRASS

    All cereal grains (wheat, spelt, maize, etc.) are grasses too. Halachic categories and botanical categories are different things, so trying to shove the square peg of botanical categories into the round hole of kitniyos is an exercise in futility.

    #1251965

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    MDG,

    “No, kitniyos is not chometz, but still assur for Ashkenazim.”

    That should be “assur for Ashkenazim to eat.”

    That should be “assur for Ashkenazim to eat during Pesach” 🙂

    #1251984

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Grains are Chametz, not Kitniyot

    Maize is not Chametz and is only Kitniyot because someone made a mistake.

    #1251990

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Grains are Chametz, not Kitniyot

    Maize is not Chametz and is only Kitniyot because someone made a mistake.

    If you’re going to kvetch about terminology, at least get your terminology correct. You seem to trust Wikipedia, so go read the first sentence of the Wikipedia entry for maize and then come back and tell me it’s not a grain.

    Also, grains are NOT chometz. Chometz is the result of wetting the flour of a certain subset of grains (wheat, spelt, barley, rye, and oats) and allowing that mixture to rise (e.g., by leaving it in that condition for longer than 18 minutes).

    Maize is kitniyos because its flour can be confused for flour that can produce chometz. Your repeated argument that someone made a “mistake” therefore only strengthens the case that it is kitniyos.

    #1252004

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You can make flour out of alot things , that are not Chametz or Kitniyot

    Potatoes, Almonds , Apples are examples

    The ability to make flour is not the reason to make Kitniyot

    #1252003

    iacisrmma
    Participant
    #1252002

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    ZD: I am not sure who you think made a “mistake” but the Mishna Berurah specifically mentions Corn (although he uses the yiddish term Tirkishe Veitz”).

    #1252022

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Mistake was made before the Mishnah Bruah

    Maize was unknown in Europe before columbus. It is native to North America.

    It was brought back to Europe and it was mistaken for something else because the word was similar

    #1252054

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    It was brought back to Europe and it was mistaken for something else because the word was similar

    Do you have a source for this notion, or is it a guess/wishful thinking?

    #1252053

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    You can make flour out of alot things , that are not Chametz or Kitniyot

    Correct. And some of these “flours” more closely resemble flour from grains that can be made into chometz, and we call the source material for those lookalike flours kitniyos. Because of the resemblance, Ashkenazim have a minhag of not eating kitniyos on Pesach. Rice made the cut and are considered kitniyos, potatoes did not make the cut, despite the fact that both can be made into “flour” and used to bake breadlike products. When new plants are introduced to a community that can be used to make “flour”, it is up to our Torah authorities to categorize them.

    The ability to make flour is not the reason to make Kitniyot

    No, but the ability to make flours that can be confused with flour that can become chometz is.

    #1252148

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    It is well known that what we call “Corn” is actually Indian Maize. It is a plant native to North America

    Corn and Turkey are the 2 most well known foods native to North America that did not exist in Europe until Columbus

    #1252732

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    It is well known that what we call “Corn” is actually Indian Maize. It is a plant native to North America

    Corn and Turkey are the 2 most well known foods native to North America that did not exist in Europe until Columbus

    Cool facts. But how do they respond to my post?

    #1252763

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “The Mistake was made before the Mishnah Bruah”

    And yet you know the applicability of Halacha better than the Chofetz Chaim.

    That is why there are people lined up to ask you for Brochos and eitzos as well for your psaokim.

    #1252771

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Avram

    The yiddish word for Rye is קאָרן

    #1252776

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    zd: But the Mishna Berurah clearly uses the yiddish word for corn – קוקורוזע. (see 453:4)

    #1252774

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So wry humor is the same as a corny joke?

    #1252799

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Mishnah Bruah uses the word Turkish Veitz in 453:4 and Veitz is also the word for Wheat

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