Why not Obama?

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  • #715152

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    Give Me a Break,

    There are numerous reasons why I wont be voting for BHO. I think you have to ask yourself which party is more in line with your personal political thinking.

    Generally the liberals (aka the democratic party) is more interested in big govt which means the govt can do no wrong and the govt is the solution to all problems. What this ends up doing to the country is we have higher taxes in order to pay for all that they give away, more unemployment etc. Of course they will throw the line out to you that they are only taxing the rich but that isnt true. Given Obama’s plan no matter what he tells you he considers ‘rich” to be about 75k which even if you are making that money, as a frum person, that is not too much considering tuition etc.

    If the ‘rich’ are taxed more keep in mind that its the ‘rich’ that employ you and if they are paying more in taxes you could kiss your raise or your possible bonus good bye. He also wont be hiring anyone new either which means you could be working harder for the same amount of pay.

    A friend of mine recently married a girl from Britan and she was amaized that people liked this country. In the UK she noted people are so downtrodden because they pay so much in taxes so they could support all their programs, the biggest of which is national healthcare. Can you imagine the govt being in charge of when you can go to a doctor, when you can have certain medical treatments etc?? This is what the Democratic party keeps talking about. I have seen the results of nationalized healthcare, what it did to a family member of mine and I promise you its NOT good at all. No one is being denied medical care! That is simply a complete lie being told to you by the left. The proof is that the ERs are so full of people who run there for non emergencies exactly because they are not turned down in the ER!

    Other items to consider are where they stand “hashkofikly” with you. Are you pro life or pro the murder of babies in the womb? Lets put it simply, open a chumash Va’yikra and whereever in Achray Mos / Kedoshim it says “NO,” the liberals say “YES.” That is the long and short of it. They stand for all the to’ayva and they are of course proud of it. As a yid I dont understand how anyone could be pro murder of babies in the womb.

    Do you feel we need a strong national defense? That we need to be on the offensive when it comes to fighting the yishmaelim yemach sh’mom? That we CANNOT cut and run from a war, any war, no matter how ‘unpopular’ the war may seem to be and WE MUST DEFEAT THE ENEMY? BHO has said he will pull out of Iraq right away. We cannot do that because if we do, the enemy will grow again and they will come here AGAIN. Too many people have forgotten that the muslims STARTED UP WITH US on many occasions. They highjacked planes and flew them into the WTC!! REMEMBER THAT?????? For goodness sakes we are still in Europe and Korea despite the wars being ‘over’ 50 & 60+ years ago. You cant just leave.

    Very rarly will you agree 100% with a particular candidate. My political leanings are Conservative so as much as I like President Bush, I will disagree with some of his spending habits which are not what we call fiscally conservative. I dont agree 100% with Senator McCain either especially on immigration but you have to take some of the bad with the good. I dont think he was the best Republican candidate out there but since he is left over and I learned more about him, I am supporting him.

    I read your last post and I have to comment on some of your answers. Do you really feel you are not paying enough in taxes? I dont know how old you are but as I recall history the tax rate was up about 60% before being cut by President Reagan. Can you imagine losing more than 2/3 of your check just to taxes?!! To me, 33% is too much. You dont get it back because the dems will use it for some wasted program.

    Affirmative Action is something which in reality is breeding racism b/c the people who dont deserve the jobs based on their credentals are getting them bec of their color. That is not fair and causes more hatred. Just the facts. The Yiddish word for Black shouldnt come into play here. Nothing will change that or the feelings people have when they see some of them (black, white, green, purple… makes no diff) running around acting like the lowest level of b’haimas.

    You answered you are for the killing of babies in the womb?! So G-d gave us the wrong law there I guess?!!

    Some people think they have to vote for Obama bec it will make them feel good to vote for a shvartza. I have no problem voting for a black person but NOT THIS ONE!

    BTW, if you are still going to vote for OHO, please remember that Election Day is Nov 5 this year.

    #715153

    mariner:

    Do you perhaps live by the bay?

    #715154

    mariner
    Member

    Give Me a Break

    mariner:

    “Do you perhaps live by the bay?”

    No. i aslo like long walks to shul, and carefree meals in the succah.

    i enjoy freedoms you want to take away from law abiding citizens, like gun ownership, free speech, and right to put ads wherever and about whatever i want. i want to be able to keep the money i work hard for, and not give it to the government so they can mess up health care the way they have messed up education (public schools are horrible), mortgage lending (forcing freddie and fannie to give loans to “minorities” and “illegals”, that could not afford it , thanks bill clinton for that one!), retirement funds (social security is bankrupt), and now insurance (with the purchase of aig). the governement has to get out of the american business, and start doing the business of the americans!

    obama is a sham! he is a marxist, and should not even be close to being the president, unless running in russia, they would love him there!

    #715155

    mariner:

    Then why are you called “mariner?”

    #715156

    Give me a break- give me a break already!!!

    I have not been on for a few days so I am just answering your comment above…

    I personally have been in shul where rocks were thrown in the window on shabbos… but that does not mean that I think that “racism is what is stopping the blacks from getting anywhere in life”. Thinking that your failure is someone else’s fault is what keeps anyone from reaching their goals. Take responsability! Hey- slavery ended how long ago??? It shouldnt be a reason why today’s children are growing up in poverty (because there are plenty of non-blacks who are also in poverty)

    How can you be a frum Jew (and I am making an asumption there that you are both) and belive in abortion? It is MURDER and is against halacha!!

    You really belive that listening to 20+ years of anti-semetic hatred (and it has been proved that the minister said these things…) would not cloud his judgement?

    The enviornment is important but the safety of humanity is more important…at least in my humble opinion….And dont go on about global warming…. because scientists are now fearing that we will be heading into a global freezing period soon….

    what does “not quite” have to do with Obama’s lack of experience and inability to make a decision (and making them when unqualified to do so) about our defenses and army?

    Taxes… so much money is going into the government and what are we getting out of it? the amount we put in is so much less then what we get out… the roads are paid for (and how much is upkeep?), we dont send our children to public school, and are not on medicare ect… if we are putting so much money into the system- how come there will not be enough money for all of us to get social security when our time comes? I dont think that I will be getting any money from that… when I put in….

    Do we really need to be paying more, when so much goes to earmarks and special projects? Why does NY need those waterfalls? Put that money into something better… like finding alternative fuels or our police department… at least then the money will be used for something significant and useful!

    #715157

    havesomeseichel:

    “How can you be a frum Jew (and I am making an asumption there that you are both) and belive in abortion? It is MURDER and is against halacha!!”

    First trimester abortions are NOT murder. Besides, you’re a woman. Don’t you ssympathize with other women who don’t wish to carry a baby to term and through life?

    {I’m NOT a woman.}

    #715158

    give me a break-

    1. There are plenty of families who would do anything to have a child- give it up for adoption… many of the children out there are disabled, either physically or mentally, and many parents are unable, emotionally or otherwise, to raise such a special child. But to have a normal child that just needs a new home…

    2. A mother who does not want to raise their own child- something is wrong….

    3. Is your comment that it is not murder according to halacha or your emotions? Besides, Obama wants 3rd trimester babies to be aborted and it has been noted that when the child somehow is not killed and lives (is BORN)- they are thrown away to die.Left alone, without food, water, incubators, or a caring hand. Not given the proper care they need to live, when they could live just like the thousands that are born prematurely every year… Now, is that not murder?

    4. What about the other points mentioned above- or can you only comment on abortion?

    #715159

    havesomeseichel:

    “3. Is your comment that it is not murder according to halacha or your emotions? Besides, Obama wants 3rd trimester babies to be aborted and it has been noted that when the child somehow is not killed and lives (is BORN)- they are thrown away to die.Left alone, without food, water, incubators, or a caring hand. Not given the proper care they need to live, when they could live just like the thousands that are born prematurely every year… Now, is that not murder?”

    My comment is based on my emotions, as I do not use the halacha as a reference guide for the whole country. But yeah, 3rd trimester abortions ARE murder. But so far it’s illegal.

    “2. A mother who does not want to raise their own child- something is wrong….”

    That is false. Besides, in these cases the woman is not really interested in child-rearing – it’s just the byproduct of something she IS interested in. And are YOU basing that on your emotions?

    Oh, I forgot – you’re still unmarried.

    #715160

    mariner
    Member

    Give Me a Break: “First trimester abortions are NOT murder. Besides, you’re a woman. Don’t you sympathize with other women who don’t wish to carry a baby to term and through life?”

    WHAT? you base halacha on sympathies? so next crack addicts who steal rob and rape to get drugs will be released because it isnt their fault, or pedophiles should be allowed to be around children because they are plagued by a disease and we should feel bad for them. women get pregnant never by mistake. there has not been a pregnancy on earth that has been a mistake. yes, women who are raped and get pregnant are not mistakes. a tragedy, yes, but not a “mistake”. if a form of birth control doesn’t work, it is not a mistake, but the one in 100 probability hitting that women. and where in gods name did you get that killing a fetus in the first trimester is fine, and not murder?

    and the fact that you want to use your emotions to figure out what is ideal for the rest of the nation, well then your other post about using morals to vote is also based on emotions, those stemming from ones religious beliefs. but for liberals only non-religious beliefs may be used, right? and i hope you aware that murder is a capitol crime for the bnei noach, meaning aborting a fetus is punishable by death al pi sheva mitzvos beni noach! so in a sense i not only “feel bad” for the fetus who is being murdered, but for the non-jew having the abortion who is now sentenced in heaven to an early death. there is a reason why most women who have abortions feel extremely guilty about it. it is because deep down they know it was wrong!

    as for obama, he was for starving babies to death that are actually born during a botched abortion. this actually happened in chicago many times, where doctors are not allow to give the baby typical post-natal treatments like massages for blood circulation and vitamins and formula.

    #715161

    GIvemeabreak–

    How do you get these opinions as to what I am or am not? I will not answer to any of these questions as I would prefer to keep my anonymity…not that I am emberarressed as to what I am saying, but rather, by everyone being a fictitious name we keep things more objective and not a “adult vs child” or “men vs women” or “chasidish vs misnagdim” or any other lables…. keep it anonymous and people in general will be more willing to speak their mind and we can get a more balanced outlook…

    Otherwise- why would you not write your real name and be “givemeabreak”…overall, most people have made up names that have no connection to their real name.

    By the way- Halacha is meant for us to live by…The goyim dont need to follow it, but should we support someone who is obviously against halacha?

    Now, on to your comment-

    http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/15318/?ck=1

    this is an article on the Born Alive Infants Protection Act,in IL, that states that many times when late 2cd and early 3rd trimester abortions are done, the baby is actually born. This law wants to force hospitals to protect these babies instead of leaving them to die. Obama was the ONLY State senator to speak against this act….which means that he supported letting LIVE babies die by leaving them in utility closets and other places where medical waste goes. Real, live babies were treated like garbage and KILLED. Obama was pro-murder in the case of these babies.

    #715162

    Doc
    Participant

    “Why not Obama?”

    The question properly is “Why Obama?”

    #715163

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Actually, I don’t believe that halachically, abortion is considered murder at all. It’s assur, yes, but not murder. After all, there are halachos about what the penalty is for someone who causes a woman to miscarry a pregnancy, and such a person does not get killed. Therefore, it’s not murder. It’s a different issur.

    #715164

    Sarah
    Member

    havesomeseichel,

    I appreciate that information- thank you.

    #715165

    Feif Un:

    And gentiles are not held responsible for things other than the Seven Noachide laws, and if abortion isn’t murder, then there isn’t anything else assur for them which abortion falls into.

    #715166

    mariner
    Member

    feif un, the reason we dont kill someone for murdering a fetus, is because there is a safek whether it would have survived, as it is in a state of near death. so for that reason we side with caution as to capital punishment.

    #715167

    d a
    Member

    Give Me a Break: Obama has flip flopped on MANY things BESIDES for Israel.

    #715168

    Please name one thing that Obama has not flip-flopped on…

    War on terrorism-flipped

    economy- not qualified to answer “above his paygrade”

    Iraq war-flipped

    The surge in Iraq- You bet!

    Israel- flopped

    So, what really are his stances on issues, and can you trust them?

    oh- he has stuck to his beliefs of abortion and taxes (oh, we dont pay enough-do we? lets all pay more! Yeah!!!) so overall, that is the candidate’s platform….

    #715169

    Please give me some examples of what you mean by “flipped.”

    #715170

    Flipped- “to turn over” (dictionary definition)

    Obama, at the begining of his campaign said that the surge was a bad idea, we are losing the war and need to get out now….

    Recently, Obama has mentioned that we are winning the war in Iraq and that the surge worked better than he could have anticipated…. And it was not as if there were new statistics or news from the Middle East…

    #715171

    mariner
    Member

    Give Me a Break: do you consider yourself to be an informed citizen? how do you know know wbout the major issues that obama has flip flopped on?

    the major one mccain flipped on, he openly talks about. drilling offshore. he says that while the economy was ok, it was wrong to do (that was idiotic, i agree, but to each their own), but now with prices sky rocketing, and no other choice, it must be allowed. he has a legitimate reason to change his idea, and that is a strong leader. he admits his earlier position was a mistake.

    obama on the other hand panders. he tell s jews that Israel must never have a divided jerusalem, and tells others jerusalem should be a palistine capitol then very next day!

    he was for coal mining in pennsylavania, but was against it in california. he was for oil exploration in texas, but was against it in new york. he claimed teh surge in iraq was a failure, and then said it was working, and then asked right afterward if he would have voted for it had he known it would work, he said he still felt it was a mistake to do in the first place. the guy is a habitual panderer, and would be well suited to stay in the useless senate. he is also a marxist, so that alone should scare you. go speak to any russian who came over during communism. i speak to many, and they all are petrified of barack, because they see in him socialism, not democracy!

    #715172

    mariner:

    That’s neither here nor there.

    #715173

    mariner
    Member

    gmab: correct obama on every issue is neither here nor there. but he is present!

    #715174

    mariner
    Member

    anyone want to know why only mccain went back to washington, and obama said hell go if called. because deep down obama knows he has nothing to add to the conversation in washington, as he is one of the most junior senatros there, and has zero leadership, or policy advising criteria needed to fix this issue on wall street.

    #715177

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    I believe that some of you might enjoy reading this thread. I say: Elections have consequences!

    #715178

    ilovetohock
    Participant

    A slava cant be a king like we see in parshas mekatz

    #715179

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I don’t know what a “slava” is, but does it belong here?

    #715180

    chesedname
    Participant

    ilovetohock

    please explain?

    wasn’t yosef a king?

    it says that before moshiach comes a slave will be a ruler. so another sign moshiach is on the way!

    #715181

    nfgo3
    Member

    Why not Obama? Because he has failed to stand up to the Republican Party of No.

    #715182

    squeak
    Participant

    All rulers are slaves

    #715183

    charliehall
    Participant

    It will be interesting to see all the people here who blast Obama for his lack of experience all praising Sarah Palin’s candidacy a year from now.

    #715184

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    All rulers are slaves

    Oooooh. Good answer. I like. 🙂

    The Wolf

    #715185

    anonymrs
    Participant

    i dont think obama is qualified, nor do i think he is doing a good job.

    however, i dont think palin is qualified either. for vp maybe, but not for president.

    #715186

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Charlie, there’s no reason to wait another year and to predict what you call hypocrisy. Look back at the 2008 elections when the most inexperienced person in modern history, a person with absolutely no executive experience (unlike Woodrow Wilson) and hardly any elective experience was nominated for president on the Democratic ticket. Those hypocrites criticized the Republicans for choosing an effective governor with the highest approval ratings in the nation as their veep. Oh, I forgot. Obama did have executive experience – his campaign.

    However, it isn’t only his inexperience, it’s his views and values. Remember! His approval ratings tanked long after his policies were denounced by the public. He forgot that a president can’t vote present.

    I predict, however, that many Republicans will take her inexperience into account. You’re going to hear those claims time and again at the primaries if she decides to run.

    #1567497

    whitecar
    Participant

    Well now we know!

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