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Giyur

(33 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by wannaknow
  • Latest reply from yehudayona

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  1. wannaknow
    Member

    Hi all.

    I was wondering if anyone has information on Rav Peretz Steinberg's giyurim. He's is a rav in Queens, New York. Is a giyur by him accepted throughout the frum world? Israel? I have seen two lists of accepted giyur by the chief rabbinate, one list hes on and the other he is not. How about the charadishe oylam, do they accept his giyur?

    Thanks for any help you can give.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    He's very broadly accepted. Good choice.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. wannaknow
    Member

    Thank you. I am happy people know of him.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    His conversions are NOT on the Rabbanut list, yet conversions done by the most respected rabbis are not on the list either. R' Marc Angel, for instance, is the former RCA president, and the RCA today has distanced themselves from him. Giyur has been distorted to the worst possible extent.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    yet conversions done by the most respected rabbis are not on the list either. R' Marc Angel, for instance, is the former RCA president, and the RCA today has distanced themselves from him.

    I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but I think if the RCA has distanced themselves from him, that is a sign that he is not "the most respected rabbis".

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. farrocks
    Joseph

    Angel is buddies with Avi Weiss.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    Angel is buddies with Avi Weiss.

    Assuming you mean theologically they are buddies (which they are, as is confirmed by a simple google search), that certainly explains it.

    I suppose if anyone wants a giyur with him, I don't really care. But they certainly shouldn't be surprised if nobody will marry their kids until the kids get an orthodox geirus.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Eli51
    Member

    Giyurim who are converted from the Lakewood Beis Din under the guidance of R. Nissan Karelitz is the most accepted here in the U.S. There are also other peoples giyurim that are also accepted. Therefore I reccomend anyone who wants to become a ger should use the Lakewood Beis as there is no one who will questions whether there Giyurim are accepted.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Could be you're right, but I'm pretty sure there's no Beis Din in Lakewood that does geirus under the auspices of R' Nissan Karelitz. There is one that used to work with R' Nochum Eisenstein, but I'm not sure if that is still the case.
    There is an organization called Tiferes Bais Yisrael that helps direct converts to Batei Din that are accepted worldwide, and also helps in finding mentors and rabbis that will help along the way. They have a searchable database on their website: jewishfamilyfocus-dot-org.

    Good Luck

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. iced
    Joseph

    Rav Nochum Eisenstein is Rav Eliyashev's zt'l's right-hand man.

    Tiferes Bais Yisroel engages in conversion practices that have been denounced by the Badatz in Yerushalayim.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. iced... is that true? where did you hear that? I know that they have the support of most of the major yeshiva-ish Batei Din in the US, so it's really surprising to hear that they engage in inappropriate conversion practices. What practices are they?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. By the way... I'm also pretty sure that Tiferes Bais Yisrael doesn't actually do geirus. All they do is refer people to Batei Din, Rabbis, and Mentors.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. wannaknow
    Member

    Hey everyone, I just wanna let everyone know, that rav steinberg is the av beis din of the young israel beis din, as well as a dayan on the beis din of the igud harrabonim, and Ive heard he is extremely respected by the Torah vodas and chafetz chaim communities. In addition i recently found out the the rabanut in israel also accepts his giyur.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. iced
    Joseph

    JARJ: Tiferes Bais Yisroel used to be called Eternal Jewish Family (EJF). They simply changed their name. They proseltize to goyim. Rav Moshe Shternbuch shlit"a, Raavad of the Badatz, wrote a letter denouncing it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Iced... I think you should investigate things before you speak (or type in this case)... From what I understand from some people involved in geirus that work with them, they made some significant changes in the organization when they restructured. It wasn't just a cosmetic name change. Leadership changed, programming changed, and the mission, to some extent, changed as well. That's why all of the yeshiva-ish Batei Din returned to working with them.

    Take a look at the website and see for yourself.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. iced
    Joseph

    What makes you think they changed their mission and programming?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Because I know people that work with them. I think if you'd take a look at their web site, or speak with anyone affiliated with them, you'd agree. Or ask around dayanim that you know that sit on a geirus Beis Din. From what I understand, there's no opposition any more.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    The motzei shem ra against a talmid chacham exhibited here is shocking. Rabbi Angel is a talmid of Rav Soloveitchik. People here called him non-Orthodox, which is a vicious falsehood. Modern Orthodoxy is hated and loathed by the Haredim, which is sina of the worst kind.

    Nochum (Norman) Eisenstein, like other Haredim, embodies an unprecedented stance on giyur and kabbalas hamitzvos. They are no different than Reformers; the psak of the Beis Yitzchok that they follow goes against the Talmud, Rambam, and Shulchan Aruch.

    He also invented a halakha that a dayan on a beit din who accepts evolution is pasul l'dayanus. Therefore, hypothetically, according to Eisenstein, choshuve rabbonim like R' Aryeh Kaplan, zt"l, the Netziv, Rav SR Hirsch, the Yachin u'Boaz, R' Eliyahu Benamozegh, Rav Kook, the Maharsham, the Maharatz Chayes, R' Slifkin, and many others are all pasul because they fail to embrace a relatively contemporary Haredi inclination towards the rejection of scientific data.

    The qualifications for a dayan on a conversion beis din are minimal.

    Meiri, Yevamos 46b, explains that for giyur, all Jewish men may be considered mumchim for the sake of giyur courts since the only function they are performing halachically is witnessing the tevilah and casually explaining the mitzvos and implications thereof upon the candidate.

    The Shu"T Binyamin Ze'ev (1:72) says that a conversion is valid when the 3 witnesses are hedyotot. The Rambam mentions that three is the requirement for giyur, he notes, and does not davka say that the three need to be mumchim.

    There are no theological or ideological litmus tests for a dayan to sit on a conversion beis din. All that is required is that the dayan be kosher l'edut, and when it comes to determining this, we don't construct halakhic straw men.

    Eisenstein also said that Ethiopian Jews require giyur, contra the Radbaz and Hakham Oovadia Yosef (this is motivated by racist sentiments, most likely.

    He invited the convicted sexual abuser Mordechai Tendler into his shul to give a shiur, and his shaychus to Yosef Tropper, whose arayos, crimes, and perversions are too explicit and raunchy to mention here, r"l, is extremely damning.

    And yet this is the man we're supposed to respect as a great halakhic authority. This is a shonda.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    BTW, the list of approved rabbonim by the Rabbanut is as follows:

    Australia
    Melbourne
    Melbourne Beit Din
    (+)613-9525-5186
    registrar@mbd.net.au
    http://www.cosv.org.au/gsqp.php?gsap=bethdin

    Sydney
    Sydney Beth Din
    sydneybethdin@gmail.com
    http://www.bethdin.org.au/

    Rabbi Baruch Lashs
    (+)612-9387-3822

    Rabbi Moshe Gutnick
    (+)612-9365-2933

    Rabbi Yehoram Ulman

    Belgium
    Antwerp
    Rabbinical Court Machzikei HaDaas
    Rabbi Eliyahu Sternbuch
    Rabbi Yitzchak Tuvia Weiss
    (+)32-3-233-5567

    Rabbi David Leiberman
    Rabbi J. Cohen
    (+)32-3-226-0438

    Canada
    Montreal
    RCA - Conversion Programme
    Administrator: Eddie Shostak – with special approval on a case by case basis.
    (+)1-514-482-4252
    eddie@geirutmontreal.org
    http://www.geirutmontreal.org

    Rabbi Yonasan Binyomin Weiss
    Beth Din of Montreal
    Tel: 514-739-6363 ext. 202
    Fax: 514-739-7024
    ajunger@mk.ca

    Toronto
    Rabbi Asher Vale
    (+)1-416-789-3213
    beis_din@hotmail.com

    Vancouver
    Beis Din of Vancouver
    (+)1-604-738-7060

    France
    Paris
    Rabbi Yaacov Medar
    (+)33-1-4082-2650

    Rabbi Mordechai Rotenberg
    (+)33-1-4277-8151

    Strasbourg
    Rabbi Shmuel Schlesinger
    (+)33-3-8836-2745

    Rabbi Mordechai Zekbach
    (+)33-3-8860-3618

    Lyon
    Rabbi Yichye Tubol
    (+)33-4-7284-6620
    Germany
    Frankfurt
    Rabbi Mencahem Klein
    49-69-75-1138(+)
    rabbinat.frankfurt@t-online.de

    Berlin
    Rabbi Y. Ehrenberg
    (+)49-30-211-2273
    (In association with a Beth-Din from Israel)

    Köln
    Beit Din of the organization of Orthodox Rabbis in Germany
    Roonstrasse 50 50674 Köln
    49-221-921560-20 (+)
    49-221-921560-19 (+) (Fax)

    Italy
    Rome
    Chief Rabbi Elihu Toaff
    Rabbino Alberto A. Piatteli
    (+)390-6-68400651

    Milano
    Rabbi Josef Laras
    (+)390-2-48593560
    Email: giuseppe.laras@gmail.com

    Netherlands
    Amsterdam
    Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag
    [resides in Brooklyn, NY, USA]
    (+)1-718-258-5596

    Poland
    There are at present no permanent Orthodox conversion courts in Poland.
    There are Rabbis who support potential converts (on a case by case basis), and can guide them through the entire process. The conversion itself is done by Rabbis from Israel who are sent on behalf of the Israeli Rabbinate for this purpose.
    Whoever is interested in converting in Poland can contact the Chief Rabbi’s Office, Rabbi Michael Schudrich:
    (+)48-226-241484
    The Polish Jewish community's website is: http://www.jewish.org.pl/

    Russia
    Moscow
    Rabbi Pinchas Goldshmidt
    (+)7-495-623-4788
    (+)7-495-940-5557

    Rabbi Berel Lazar
    (+)7-495-602-6747

    South Africa
    Johannesburg
    Rabbi Moshe Kurtstag
    http://www.uos.co.za/bethDin/

    United Kingdom
    London
    Beit Din of London
    (+)44-208-343-6270

    Dayan E. Padwa
    (+)44-208-806-8103

    Rabbi Y.Lichtenstein
    Federation of Synagogues
    (+)44-208-202-2263

    Manchester
    Rabbi G. Krauss
    (+)44-161-740-9711

    Leeds
    Rabbi Y. Refson
    (+)44-113-269-6902
    United States
    Beth Din of America / Rabbinical Council of America
    Rabbi Michoel Zylberman
    (+)1-212 -807-9000, extension 3
    geirus@bethdin.org
    http://www.judaismconversion.org/

    Participating Batei Din: http://www.judaismconversion.org/batei.din.html

    California
    Los Angeles
    Rabbinical Council of California
    Rabbi Avrohom Union
    (+)1-213-389-3382 ,extension 131
    Email: runion@rccvaad.org
    http://www.rccvaad.org/beth-conversion.html

    Rabbi Gavriel Cohen
    Rabbi Avraham Teichman
    Telephone: (+)1-323-9390298
    Fax: (+)1-323-9333686
    Rabbi Shmuel Ohana
    (+) 1-818-216-5730 Direct Line
    (+) 1-818-901-1598 Office Telephone
    (+) 1-818-901-1759 Office Fax

    Florida
    Miami
    South Florida Beit Din for Conversion
    Rabbi Efrem Goldberg
    561-394-0394
    reg@brsonline.org

    Rabbi David Lehrfeld
    North Miami Beach
    (+)1-786-942-1711
    mlehrfield@gmail.com

    Georgia
    Atlanta
    Rabbi Ilan D. Feldman
    (+)1-404-633-0551

    South-East Regional Beth Din for Conversion
    Rabbi Adam Starr
    (+)1-404-315-1417
    rabbi.starr@yith.org

    Illinois
    Chicago
    Beth Din Zedek of Chicago Rabbinical Council
    (+)1-773-465-3900
    smeyers@crcweb.org
    Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwarz

    Rabbi Shmuel Fuerst
    (+)1-773-539-4241

    Maryland
    Baltimore
    Rabbi M. Feldman
    (+)1-410-764-7373

    Massachusetts
    Boston
    Rabbi Abraham Halbfinger
    Vaad Harabonim of Massachusetts
    (+)1-617-426-2139

    Michigan
    Detroit
    Rabbi I.M. Levin
    (+)1-248-557-6680

    Missouri
    St. Louis
    Rabbi Sholom Rivkin
    (+)1-314-569-2770

    New Jersey
    Teaneck
    Bet Din of the Rabbinical Council of Bergen County
    Rabbi Steven Pruzansky
    (+)1-201-287-9292

    Elizabeth
    Rabbi Eliezer Teitz
    (+)1-908-355-4850

    New York
    Manhattan
    Manhattan Beth Din for Conversions
    Rabbi Zvi Romm
    geirusmanhattan@gmail.com

    Rabbinical Alliance of America
    Rabbi Hershel Kurzrock
    (+)1-212-242-6420

    Brooklyn
    Beth Din of Agudath Harabbonim
    Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag
    (+)1-718-258-5596

    Queens
    Rabbi Eliyahu Ben-Haim
    Sepharadic Beth Din of Queens
    Rabbi Menachem Zilber
    (+)1-718-384-6765

    Monsey
    Rabbi S.J. Landesman
    (+)1-914-356-5379

    Ohio
    Cleveland
    Rabbi Grananstein
    Rabbi David Zlatin
    (+)1-216-595-1299
    dzlatin@ramat.cc

    Cincinnati
    Beth Din of Cincinnati
    Rabbi Hanan Balk
    (+)1-513-531-6654
    rabbibalk@fuse.net
    Pennsylvania
    Philadelphia
    Rabbi A. Brisman
    (+)1-215-722-0239

    Pittsburgh
    Vaad HaRabbanim of Greater Pittsburgh
    Rabbi Langer
    Rabbi Moishe Mayer Vogel
    (+)1-412-421-0111
    rabbivogel@alephne.org

    Washington
    Seattle
    Va'ad Harabanim of Greater Seattle
    Rabbi Moshe Kletenik
    (+)1-206-721-0970
    rabbimyk@bcmhseattle.org
    Washington D.C.
    Conversion Court of Washington D.C.
    Rabbi Barry Freundel
    (+)1-202-333-2337

    Wisconsin
    Milwaukee
    Rabbi Menachem Senderovic
    (+)1-414-873-4398

    Conversion in Latin America:
    There are at present no recognized rabbinic conversion courts and no Orthodox conversions in any Latin American country. Residents of Latin America who wish to convert do so before a rabbinic court in the United States, or – if the convert is eligible for aliya status – in Israel.
    The rabbis of Latin America listed below are known to support potential converts (on a case by case basis), and can guide them through the entire process.

    Brazil
    Rabbi Binyamin Zagury, Rio de Janeiro
    Rabbi Meir Fuksman, Sau Paulo
    Rabbi Matan Regev, Belem

    Mexico
    Rabbi Zizke Slomiansky, Mexico City
    Rabbi Abraham Palti, Mexico City

    Peru
    Rabbi Itay Meushar, Lima

    Costa Rica
    Rabbi Gershon Miletski, San Jose

    Spain
    Rabbi Moshe Bendahan, Madrid

    Portugal
    Rabbi Eliezer Di Martino, Lisbon

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    Doniel: You just keep on convincing yourself.

    Look, if you want to rely on Angel, go ahead. Everyone can do their own thing, and I don't really care one way or another.

    But a chacham has einav b'rosho. That is, you should be aware that orthodox jews may not accept his geirus.

    Also, for the record, I don't care who is rebbi is. I care who he is. Rebi Meir's rebbi was an apikores, and a large percentage of the talmidim in Volozhin were apikorsim.

    They don't even claim to be orthodox. They call themselves Open Orthodox to distinguish themselves from orthodoxy. The same way Conservative calls itself Conservative Judaism to distinguish itself from Judaism.

    And this has nothing to do with Modern Orthodoxy. Modern Orthodoxy and chareidim are very close compared to the distance both groups have from these clowns.

    Modern Orthodox rabbonim and establishments are the ones leading the charge on this. The chareidim are distanced from it; nobody from our community is going to get confused. It is the Modern Orthodox who to their credit have stepped up to the plate to expel this Eidah Ha'raah from our midst. ובערת הרע מקרביך.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. farrocks
    Joseph

    Those aren't positions of Rav Eisenstein shlit"a; those are positions of Maran Hagaon HaRav S. Y. Eliashev zt"l.

    Also, the Ethiopians are gentiles (unless they convert.)

    Angel is as Orthodox as Avi Weiss.

    A prospective convert who does not accept all 613, his purported conversion is invalid and was never effective.

    A Dayan who is an apikorus, is an invalid Dayan. And as Rav Eliashev said belief in evolution is apikorsus, that makes it pasul.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. zahavasdad
    Member

    Rabbi Perez Steinberg is actually part of the Vaad of Queens the only organization that has actually guideliness for converts.

    If somone went to Torah Vadaas and asked to convert, Rav Belsky tells them to go to Queens

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    RABBI Angel is as chashuv as they come, and his commitment to torah and mitzvot is unquestionable. His ideas on giyur are rooted in the Rambam, Shulchan Aruch, and Rav Uziel, zt"l, and if you wish to be frummer than the Piskei Uziel, Mechaber, or Rambam, that is your prerogative.

    Show me one credible source which says that believing in scientific evidence is apikorsus, or that there are ideological litmus tests as to who can sit on a conversion beis din.

    If you assume that evolution is apikorsus, and a rabbi who believes in it is pasul, than you just slapped so many gedolim in the face, Rav Kook and Rav Hirsch included.

    Others don't have to be wrong for you to be right. This religion of triumphalism and one upmanship is not what G-d had in mind when He gave us the Torah and it is certainly not what they had in mind in Sura and Pumbedita.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. HaLeiVi
    Plays the aeolian harp by air

    zahavasdad, that's interesting, because I know of Giyurim that Rav Belsky did.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. zahavasdad
    Member

    Rav Ovadiah Yosef says the Ethiopians are jewish and Rav Elyashiv says they are not

    Who are we to follow?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    doniel: Angel is as chashuv as they come

    If by they, you mean the conservative jews, that is very possible. I'm not personally in the habit of ranking their chashivus, and I'm not sure what the criteria would be, but I'm sure there is a way to do so.

    But, I'm sure he doesn't hold a candle to Saul Lieberman (who by the way, wrote a teshuva אסור-ing the stuff that Weiss does, so they aren't even conservative--they are left wing conservative. hee hee)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    What has R' Angel done that even resembles the Conservative movement?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. farrocks
    Joseph

    The bottom line is that if someone is foolish enough to get a conversion through Angel, he shouldn't expect that conversion to be widely recognized.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    I know R' Angel very closely, and anyone who challenges this gadol is passuling themselves.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    I know...Angel very closely, and anyone who challenges...is passuling themselves.

    I see. So now you've passuled the RCA also. Nice.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    Nobody in the Modern Orthodox community would dare go against R' Angel, who was the past president of the RCA in the early 90's.

    Even Chassidishe batei din accept his conversions as kosher. There is no reason whatsoever to dispute a conversion where there has been milah, mikvah, 3 kosher eidim, and where the ger is observant.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. yehudayona
    Member

    The Rabbanut's list is out of date. Rabbi Abraham Halbfinger was niftar in September.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. yehudayona
    Member

    Please note that there are two people named Rabbi Nachum Eisenstein. One lives in E"Y and was a associated with R' Elyashiv ztl. The other lives in Lakewood and writes a column for Yated.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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