- This topic has 33 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 10 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Hi all.
I was wondering if anyone has information on Rav Peretz Steinberg’s giyurim. He’s is a rav in Queens, New York. Is a giyur by him accepted throughout the frum world? Israel? I have seen two lists of accepted giyur by the chief rabbinate, one list hes on and the other he is not. How about the charadishe oylam, do they accept his giyur?
Thanks for any help you can give.
He’s very broadly accepted. Good choice.
His conversions are NOT on the Rabbanut list, yet conversions done by the most respected rabbis are not on the list either. R’ Marc Angel, for instance, is the former RCA president, and the RCA today has distanced themselves from him. Giyur has been distorted to the worst possible extent.
yet conversions done by the most respected rabbis are not on the list either. R’ Marc Angel, for instance, is the former RCA president, and the RCA today has distanced themselves from him.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say, but I think if the RCA has distanced themselves from him, that is a sign that he is not “the most respected rabbis”.
Angel is buddies with Avi Weiss.
Angel is buddies with Avi Weiss.
Assuming you mean theologically they are buddies (which they are, as is confirmed by a simple google search), that certainly explains it.
I suppose if anyone wants a giyur with him, I don’t really care. But they certainly shouldn’t be surprised if nobody will marry their kids until the kids get an orthodox geirus.
Giyurim who are converted from the Lakewood Beis Din under the guidance of R. Nissan Karelitz is the most accepted here in the U.S. There are also other peoples giyurim that are also accepted. Therefore I reccomend anyone who wants to become a ger should use the Lakewood Beis as there is no one who will questions whether there Giyurim are accepted.
Could be you’re right, but I’m pretty sure there’s no Beis Din in Lakewood that does geirus under the auspices of R’ Nissan Karelitz. There is one that used to work with R’ Nochum Eisenstein, but I’m not sure if that is still the case.
There is an organization called Tiferes Bais Yisrael that helps direct converts to Batei Din that are accepted worldwide, and also helps in finding mentors and rabbis that will help along the way. They have a searchable database on their website: jewishfamilyfocus-dot-org.
Good Luck
Rav Nochum Eisenstein is Rav Eliyashev’s zt’l’s right-hand man.
Tiferes Bais Yisroel engages in conversion practices that have been denounced by the Badatz in Yerushalayim.
iced… is that true? where did you hear that? I know that they have the support of most of the major yeshiva-ish Batei Din in the US, so it’s really surprising to hear that they engage in inappropriate conversion practices. What practices are they?
By the way… I’m also pretty sure that Tiferes Bais Yisrael doesn’t actually do geirus. All they do is refer people to Batei Din, Rabbis, and Mentors.
JARJ: Tiferes Bais Yisroel used to be called Eternal Jewish Family (EJF). They simply changed their name. They proseltize to goyim. Rav Moshe Shternbuch shlit”a, Raavad of the Badatz, wrote a letter denouncing it.
Iced… I think you should investigate things before you speak (or type in this case)… From what I understand from some people involved in geirus that work with them, they made some significant changes in the organization when they restructured. It wasn’t just a cosmetic name change. Leadership changed, programming changed, and the mission, to some extent, changed as well. That’s why all of the yeshiva-ish Batei Din returned to working with them.
Take a look at the website and see for yourself.
What makes you think they changed their mission and programming?
Because I know people that work with them. I think if you’d take a look at their web site, or speak with anyone affiliated with them, you’d agree. Or ask around dayanim that you know that sit on a geirus Beis Din. From what I understand, there’s no opposition any more.
The motzei shem ra against a talmid chacham exhibited here is shocking. Rabbi Angel is a talmid of Rav Soloveitchik. People here called him non-Orthodox, which is a vicious falsehood. Modern Orthodoxy is hated and loathed by the Haredim, which is sina of the worst kind.
Nochum (Norman) Eisenstein, like other Haredim, embodies an unprecedented stance on giyur and kabbalas hamitzvos. They are no different than Reformers; the psak of the Beis Yitzchok that they follow goes against the Talmud, Rambam, and Shulchan Aruch.
He also invented a halakha that a dayan on a beit din who accepts evolution is pasul l’dayanus. Therefore, hypothetically, according to Eisenstein, choshuve rabbonim like R’ Aryeh Kaplan, zt”l, the Netziv, Rav SR Hirsch, the Yachin u’Boaz, R’ Eliyahu Benamozegh, Rav Kook, the Maharsham, the Maharatz Chayes, R’ Slifkin, and many others are all pasul because they fail to embrace a relatively contemporary Haredi inclination towards the rejection of scientific data.
The qualifications for a dayan on a conversion beis din are minimal.
Meiri, Yevamos 46b, explains that for giyur, all Jewish men may be considered mumchim for the sake of giyur courts since the only function they are performing halachically is witnessing the tevilah and casually explaining the mitzvos and implications thereof upon the candidate.
The Shu”T Binyamin Ze’ev (1:72) says that a conversion is valid when the 3 witnesses are hedyotot. The Rambam mentions that three is the requirement for giyur, he notes, and does not davka say that the three need to be mumchim.
There are no theological or ideological litmus tests for a dayan to sit on a conversion beis din. All that is required is that the dayan be kosher l’edut, and when it comes to determining this, we don’t construct halakhic straw men.
Eisenstein also said that Ethiopian Jews require giyur, contra the Radbaz and Hakham Oovadia Yosef (this is motivated by racist sentiments, most likely.
He invited the convicted sexual abuser Mordechai Tendler into his shul to give a shiur, and his shaychus to Yosef Tropper, whose arayos, crimes, and perversions are too explicit and raunchy to mention here, r”l, is extremely damning.
And yet this is the man we’re supposed to respect as a great halakhic authority. This is a shonda.
BTW, the list of approved rabbonim by the Rabbanut is as follows:
Australia
Melbourne
Melbourne Beit Din
(+)613-9525-5186
http://www.cosv.org.au/gsqp.php?gsap=bethdin
Sydney
Sydney Beth Din
Rabbi Baruch Lashs
(+)612-9387-3822
Rabbi Moshe Gutnick
(+)612-9365-2933
Rabbi Yehoram Ulman
Belgium
Antwerp
Rabbinical Court Machzikei HaDaas
Rabbi Eliyahu Sternbuch
Rabbi Yitzchak Tuvia Weiss
(+)32-3-233-5567
Rabbi David Leiberman
Rabbi J. Cohen
(+)32-3-226-0438
Canada
Montreal
RCA – Conversion Programme
(+)1-514-482-4252
Rabbi Yonasan Binyomin Weiss
Beth Din of Montreal
Tel: 514-739-6363 ext. 202
Fax: 514-739-7024
Toronto
Rabbi Asher Vale
(+)1-416-789-3213
Vancouver
Beis Din of Vancouver
(+)1-604-738-7060
France
Paris
Rabbi Yaacov Medar
(+)33-1-4082-2650
Rabbi Mordechai Rotenberg
(+)33-1-4277-8151
Strasbourg
Rabbi Shmuel Schlesinger
(+)33-3-8836-2745
Rabbi Mordechai Zekbach
(+)33-3-8860-3618
Lyon
Rabbi Yichye Tubol
(+)33-4-7284-6620
Germany
Frankfurt
Rabbi Mencahem Klein
49-69-75-1138(+)
Berlin
Rabbi Y. Ehrenberg
(+)49-30-211-2273
(In association with a Beth-Din from Israel)
Beit Din of the organization of Orthodox Rabbis in Germany
49-221-921560-20 (+)
49-221-921560-19 (+) (Fax)
Italy
Rome
Chief Rabbi Elihu Toaff
Rabbino Alberto A. Piatteli
(+)390-6-68400651
Milano
Rabbi Josef Laras
(+)390-2-48593560
Email: [email protected]
Netherlands
Amsterdam
Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag
[resides in Brooklyn, NY, USA]
(+)1-718-258-5596
Poland
There are at present no permanent Orthodox conversion courts in Poland.
There are Rabbis who support potential converts (on a case by case basis), and can guide them through the entire process. The conversion itself is done by Rabbis from Israel who are sent on behalf of the Israeli Rabbinate for this purpose.
(+)48-226-241484
The Polish Jewish community’s website is: http://www.jewish.org.pl/
Russia
Moscow
Rabbi Pinchas Goldshmidt
(+)7-495-623-4788
(+)7-495-940-5557
Rabbi Berel Lazar
(+)7-495-602-6747
South Africa
Johannesburg
Rabbi Moshe Kurtstag
United Kingdom
London
Beit Din of London
(+)44-208-343-6270
Dayan E. Padwa
(+)44-208-806-8103
Rabbi Y.Lichtenstein
Federation of Synagogues
(+)44-208-202-2263
Manchester
Rabbi G. Krauss
(+)44-161-740-9711
Leeds
Rabbi Y. Refson
(+)44-113-269-6902
United States
Beth Din of America / Rabbinical Council of America
Rabbi Michoel Zylberman
(+)1-212 -807-9000, extension 3
http://www.judaismconversion.org/
Participating Batei Din: http://www.judaismconversion.org/batei.din.html
California
Los Angeles
Rabbinical Council of California
Rabbi Avrohom Union
(+)1-213-389-3382 ,extension 131
Email: [email protected]
http://www.rccvaad.org/beth-conversion.html
Rabbi Gavriel Cohen
Rabbi Avraham Teichman
Telephone: (+)1-323-9390298
Fax: (+)1-323-9333686
Rabbi Shmuel Ohana
(+) 1-818-216-5730 Direct Line
(+) 1-818-901-1598 Office Telephone
(+) 1-818-901-1759 Office Fax
Florida
Miami
South Florida Beit Din for Conversion
Rabbi Efrem Goldberg
561-394-0394
Rabbi David Lehrfeld
North Miami Beach
(+)1-786-942-1711
Georgia
Atlanta
Rabbi Ilan D. Feldman
(+)1-404-633-0551
South-East Regional Beth Din for Conversion
Rabbi Adam Starr
(+)1-404-315-1417
Illinois
Chicago
Beth Din Zedek of Chicago Rabbinical Council
(+)1-773-465-3900
Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwarz
Rabbi Shmuel Fuerst
(+)1-773-539-4241
Maryland
Baltimore
Rabbi M. Feldman
(+)1-410-764-7373
Massachusetts
Boston
Rabbi Abraham Halbfinger
Vaad Harabonim of Massachusetts
(+)1-617-426-2139
Michigan
Detroit
Rabbi I.M. Levin
(+)1-248-557-6680
Missouri
St. Louis
Rabbi Sholom Rivkin
(+)1-314-569-2770
New Jersey
Teaneck
Bet Din of the Rabbinical Council of Bergen County
Rabbi Steven Pruzansky
(+)1-201-287-9292
Elizabeth
Rabbi Eliezer Teitz
(+)1-908-355-4850
New York
Manhattan
Manhattan Beth Din for Conversions
Rabbi Zvi Romm
Rabbinical Alliance of America
Rabbi Hershel Kurzrock
(+)1-212-242-6420
Brooklyn
Beth Din of Agudath Harabbonim
Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag
(+)1-718-258-5596
Queens
Rabbi Eliyahu Ben-Haim
Sepharadic Beth Din of Queens
Rabbi Menachem Zilber
(+)1-718-384-6765
Monsey
Rabbi S.J. Landesman
(+)1-914-356-5379
Ohio
Cleveland
Rabbi Grananstein
Rabbi David Zlatin
(+)1-216-595-1299
Cincinnati
Beth Din of Cincinnati
Rabbi Hanan Balk
(+)1-513-531-6654
Pennsylvania
Philadelphia
Rabbi A. Brisman
(+)1-215-722-0239
Pittsburgh
Vaad HaRabbanim of Greater Pittsburgh
Rabbi Langer
Rabbi Moishe Mayer Vogel
(+)1-412-421-0111
Washington
Seattle
Va’ad Harabanim of Greater Seattle
Rabbi Moshe Kletenik
(+)1-206-721-0970
Washington D.C.
Conversion Court of Washington D.C.
Rabbi Barry Freundel
(+)1-202-333-2337
Wisconsin
Milwaukee
Rabbi Menachem Senderovic
(+)1-414-873-4398
Conversion in Latin America:
The rabbis of Latin America listed below are known to support potential converts (on a case by case basis), and can guide them through the entire process.
Brazil
Rabbi Binyamin Zagury, Rio de Janeiro
Rabbi Meir Fuksman, Sau Paulo
Rabbi Matan Regev, Belem
Mexico
Rabbi Zizke Slomiansky, Mexico City
Rabbi Abraham Palti, Mexico City
Peru
Rabbi Itay Meushar, Lima
Costa Rica
Rabbi Gershon Miletski, San Jose
Spain
Rabbi Moshe Bendahan, Madrid
Portugal
Rabbi Eliezer Di Martino, Lisbon
Doniel: You just keep on convincing yourself.
Look, if you want to rely on Angel, go ahead. Everyone can do their own thing, and I don’t really care one way or another.
But a chacham has einav b’rosho. That is, you should be aware that orthodox jews may not accept his geirus.
Also, for the record, I don’t care who is rebbi is. I care who he is. Rebi Meir’s rebbi was an apikores, and a large percentage of the talmidim in Volozhin were apikorsim.
They don’t even claim to be orthodox. They call themselves Open Orthodox to distinguish themselves from orthodoxy. The same way Conservative calls itself Conservative Judaism to distinguish itself from Judaism.
And this has nothing to do with Modern Orthodoxy. Modern Orthodoxy and chareidim are very close compared to the distance both groups have from these clowns.
Modern Orthodox rabbonim and establishments are the ones leading the charge on this. The chareidim are distanced from it; nobody from our community is going to get confused. It is the Modern Orthodox who to their credit have stepped up to the plate to expel this Eidah Ha’raah from our midst. ????? ??? ??????.
Those aren’t positions of Rav Eisenstein shlit”a; those are positions of Maran Hagaon HaRav S. Y. Eliashev zt”l.
Also, the Ethiopians are gentiles (unless they convert.)
Angel is as Orthodox as Avi Weiss.
A prospective convert who does not accept all 613, his purported conversion is invalid and was never effective.
A Dayan who is an apikorus, is an invalid Dayan. And as Rav Eliashev said belief in evolution is apikorsus, that makes it pasul.
Rabbi Perez Steinberg is actually part of the Vaad of Queens the only organization that has actually guideliness for converts.
If somone went to Torah Vadaas and asked to convert, Rav Belsky tells them to go to Queens
RABBI Angel is as chashuv as they come, and his commitment to torah and mitzvot is unquestionable. His ideas on giyur are rooted in the Rambam, Shulchan Aruch, and Rav Uziel, zt”l, and if you wish to be frummer than the Piskei Uziel, Mechaber, or Rambam, that is your prerogative.
Show me one credible source which says that believing in scientific evidence is apikorsus, or that there are ideological litmus tests as to who can sit on a conversion beis din.
If you assume that evolution is apikorsus, and a rabbi who believes in it is pasul, than you just slapped so many gedolim in the face, Rav Kook and Rav Hirsch included.
Others don’t have to be wrong for you to be right. This religion of triumphalism and one upmanship is not what G-d had in mind when He gave us the Torah and it is certainly not what they had in mind in Sura and Pumbedita.
zahavasdad, that’s interesting, because I know of Giyurim that Rav Belsky did.
Rav Ovadiah Yosef says the Ethiopians are jewish and Rav Elyashiv says they are not
Who are we to follow?
doniel: Angel is as chashuv as they come
If by they, you mean the conservative jews, that is very possible. I’m not personally in the habit of ranking their chashivus, and I’m not sure what the criteria would be, but I’m sure there is a way to do so.
But, I’m sure he doesn’t hold a candle to Saul Lieberman (who by the way, wrote a teshuva ????-ing the stuff that Weiss does, so they aren’t even conservative–they are left wing conservative. hee hee)
What has R’ Angel done that even resembles the Conservative movement?
The bottom line is that if someone is foolish enough to get a conversion through Angel, he shouldn’t expect that conversion to be widely recognized.
I know R’ Angel very closely, and anyone who challenges this gadol is passuling themselves.
I know…Angel very closely, and anyone who challenges…is passuling themselves.
I see. So now you’ve passuled the RCA also. Nice.
Nobody in the Modern Orthodox community would dare go against R’ Angel, who was the past president of the RCA in the early 90’s.
Even Chassidishe batei din accept his conversions as kosher. There is no reason whatsoever to dispute a conversion where there has been milah, mikvah, 3 kosher eidim, and where the ger is observant.
The Rabbanut’s list is out of date. Rabbi Abraham Halbfinger was niftar in September.
Please note that there are two people named Rabbi Nachum Eisenstein. One lives in E”Y and was a associated with R’ Elyashiv ztl. The other lives in Lakewood and writes a column for Yated.
The sad thing is that Doniel also sees fit to lie about “evolution,” a nonsense that can be discredited in 30 seconds (millions of ape fossils, billions of human and no transitional fossils – other than of course a few deformed skulls, some underwater for thousands of years – that’s not a missing link, it’s a gaping hole right through the theory). Open Orthodoxy’s favorite pastime is to lie and distort sources in a way that no one could imagine. But saying that the Netziv and Rav Hirsch were for this nonsense is insane. Do Teshuva and then go to their graves and ask mechila. Have pity on your own soul, which is deeply pained by every fabrication that you make. And regarding Ethiopians, it’s pretty basic that a group with no mesora about them and huge rates of intermarriage for thousands of years needs to go through conversion. Anything else is politics. Racism is special treatment. Lack of racism is equal application of (in this case – clear halachic) standards.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.