Is there a connection between unpaid Shadchanus and the blazing Shidduch crisis?

Home Coffeeroom Shidduchim Is there a connection between unpaid Shadchanus and the blazing Shidduch crisis?

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  • #1538395

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    Is there a connection between neglecting to pay Shadchanus to the Shadchan who spent many hours, days, weeks and moths and arranged your Shidduch, and the blazing Shidduch crisis that were all very aware of, with thousands of heartbroken singles hoping a Shadchan will put effort into matching them, but gets burnt out when theyre not paid for a successful Shidduch?

    How does one deal with wealthy people who make very luxurious weddings but dont pay the Shadchan?

    If paying Shadchanus when a Shadchan makes a Shidduch, isnt the key to encourage Shadchanim to put effort into other singles, what is?

    In my mind, treating Shadchanim well, and promptly paying Shadchanus by the time the wedding takes place, serves to lessen the Shidduch crisis, and the reverse is true as well, not paying Shadchanus by the time the wedding takes place, serves to aggravate the Shidduch crisis, because of Shadchan burnout.

    #1538426

    Joseph
    Participant

    1. I would think that not having paid the shadchan is a very rare error to occur.

    2. Most shidduchim are made by friends and family who are not professional shadchanim.

    #1538425

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Perhaps the crisis is because of all the un necessary loshon hora spoken to make and break potential shidduchim. Vdal.

    #1538417

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The real trouble is that the profession can mostly be replaced with computers.

    #1538463

    Truth Seeking
    Participant

    maybe the problem is that every guy and girl is waiting for that dream guy.
    I remember when someone once told me when I was dating: “You don’t know which girl hashem decided for you to marry”.
    Gemara in sotah says that its basically decided already.
    So instead of the dream girl/guy, maybe should look for the RIGHT one.

    #1538470

    yeshivabochur123
    Participant

    What about all the shadchanus that was paid for weddings that never took place? HKBH has a way of working things out that people get money they deserve and lose money that they don’t.
    I think its more of an emunah crisis.

    #1538475

    unommin
    Participant

    The evidence of a corrupt system is that people ask questions like this.

    #1538485

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    “The evidence of a corrupt system is that people ask questions like this.”

    Not many people can afford to work for free. Those who can afford to work for free are too busy shopping, redecorating and vacationing. They have no time or energy to be involved in Shidduchim.

    #1538486

    laskern
    Participant

    Paying shadchanus is a segulah for a good marriage.

    #1538494

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    With Shadchanim having bills to pay, how does one deal with parents who paid for a Shmorg that offered 100 hot dishes and 100 cold dishes, worthy of a palace feast, but not a penny for the Shadchan? If this doesnt cause Shadchan burnout, what does?

    #1538499

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The shidduch crisis (if using the term properly) is a mathematical certainty. You could pay shadchans a million dollars a second and it wouldn’t change anything as long as they keep perpetuating a 4-5 year age gap between males and females.

    #1538505

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    “The shidduch crisis (if using the term properly) is a mathematical certainty. You could pay shadchans a million dollars a second and it wouldn’t change anything as long as they keep perpetuating a 4-5 year age gap between males and females.”

    False! You can totally eliminate the 4-5 year age gap, and with no one interested in making the introductions, because of shabby treatment, the miserable painful Shidduch crisis will blossom.

    #1538506

    fork
    Participant

    “The evidence of a corrupt system is that people ask questions like this.”
    Paying Shadchanus is a halacha, not the result of a corrupt system.

    AZOI.IS: you seem to have experienced brokering a shidduch and then not getting paid. Was this one isolated event, or does this happen often? By the way, you can take them to a din torah.

    #1538510

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You could pay shadchans a million dollars a second and it wouldn’t change anything as long as they keep perpetuating a 4-5 year age gap between males and females.

    Your point is correct, but I doubt it’s as much as 4-5 years.

    #1538512

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/is-there-a-tactful-way-to-say-shadchan-prefers-money#post-1003173

    yes, I know… I know…. you never know who paid for the wedding…and you cant judge.

    #1538518

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    “AZOI.IS: you seem to have experienced brokering a shidduch and then not getting paid. Was this one isolated event, or does this happen often? By the way, you can take them to a din torah.”

    People who clearly dont have extra money, who have made plain weddings, have given me $100 and I was very ok with that.
    After going to a very grand, palatial affair, getting nothing, hurts.

    #1538521

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    After going to a very grand, palatial affair, getting nothing, hurts.

    What does that have to do with the blazing shidduch crisis?

    #1539044

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Azoi: You’re misusing the phrase “shidduch crisis.” It doesn’t refer to people going out on dates, not hitting it off, and going home with their feelings hurt. It refers to the fact that in every generation there will be a surplus of single, Jewish girls who will never marry; the surplus grows proportionally with the frum population.

    If you want to talk about people not meeting their soulmate even in the absence of this problem (like if we were to close the age gap like you said), that’s fine, but that’s not what “The Shidduch Crisis” refers to.

    Edited

    #1539142

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    wait, why would there always be a surplus of girls not married? If they are single and older, arent there also guys who are single and older willing to marry them? After all most older girls look for older guys not younger.

    #1539136

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    Neville ChaimBerlin:

    My friend, to my knowledge “The Shidduch Crisis” is loosely defined as the traumatic situation the Orthodox community is experiencing with a huge number of singles who havent found their Zivugim, that they are desperately yearning for, and afaik, this term is not related to the age gap issue, even though its a contributing factor.
    When Shadchanim experience burnout as a result of not being treated well and feeling totally deflated after going to a wedding with hundreds of options at a Shmorg fit for royalty, and yet coming home empty-handed, this clearly has an effect on the Shidduch crisis (the huge number of singles who are yearning to get married).

    Less Shadchanim + making less attempts = less singles getting married.

    #1539148

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1539154

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If they are single and older, arent there also guys who are single and older willing to marry them?

    Not as many

    #1539161

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    NCB uses #1
    A.I. uses #4

    #1539164

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    DY-“Not as many”

    -why not?

    #1539172

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1539179

    jdb
    Participant

    Let’s not blame any one group for a bigger issue. In my experience, there are many amazing shadchanim who work very hard, including rabbonim, rabbeim, teachers and rebbetsins. Friends and neighbors also play an important role. I’m sure there are yechidim, whether shadchanim, parents or individuals who make mistakes. But by and larger this isn’t the case.

    The fact is that is that it often becomes harder to make a match as the prospects age out of the primary dating age. The best solution is to do what you can to help. As a friend, as a neighbor, or even someone who lost touch. Daven for them. Have them over and support them emotionally in life, not just in shidduchim. Do what you can, do your personal hishtadlus, and then daven and be a good friend.

    #1540486

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Not everything that bad that happens to individuals here and there needs to be defined as a crisis. The point of the phrase is to refer to an overarching problem, which seems to have no solution if the Litvish world doesn’t change its system. Anyway, I see that I might be turning this into a repeat thread.

    LC: The frum population is growing very quickly. Therefore, by definition, there will always be more 25 year-olds than there are 22 year-olds etc.

    #1540591

    Yankelle
    Participant

    AZOI.IS: Do you make your expectations clear at the start? Maybe you and your clients have different expectations for remuneration, and that is the issue.

    #1540595

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    AZOI.IS,

    Is there a connection between neglecting to pay Shadchanus to the Shadchan who spent many hours, days, weeks and moths and arranged your Shidduch, and the blazing Shidduch crisis that were all very aware of, with thousands of heartbroken singles hoping a Shadchan will put effort into matching them, but gets burnt out when theyre not paid for a successful Shidduch?

    What right does a shadchan have to underserve an innocent client who engaged his or her services in good faith, and who has nothing to do with the previous clients who didn’t pay? Two wrongs don’t make a right. If a shadchan is having trouble getting compensation he or she is owed, have clients sign contracts and bring them to dinei Torah if they renege. If shadchanus is your parnassa, conduct it like a business.

    #1540613

    mazal77
    Participant

    Absolutely not. What does one have to do with another??!! If anything, I would assume the high divorce rate and those having difficulty in conceiving, might be a probelm, if a shadchan was not paid; If anything, the boys going off the derech are the problem Bring those boys back to yiddishkeit and give them a reason they should get married. They are having a grand ole time (so they think) no responiblites or having to work like a dog to take care of a family. Drug use & Suicide is a very scery realty for the frum velt. Yes, there are boys, but some don’t want to get married. They have no reason too. It is imperative that we work on Kiruv Rechokim. Bring our kids back to love Yiddishkeit!

    i

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