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1. luv2hack
   Member

   Found this on a different website- what do you think?

   The Darchei Rachel seminary for girls in Jerusalem imposed a new regulation recently: Each girl agreeing not to put on makeup for her wedding will receive a scholarship worth NIS 1,000 (about $265).

   Moshe, whose sister studies at Darchei Rachel, says the new plan was initiated by the institution following a rise in the use of makeup among ultra-Orthodox girls.

   According to Moshe, before their wedding the girls are exempted from the school's strict rules, leading many brides to put on heavy makeup.

   The managers of the seminary, which is considered one of the most conservative education institutions in the ultra-Orthodox sector and has about 1,500 students, took notice of the trend and decided to try and change it.

   A source in the institution reported of a partial response to the scholarship, adding that not enough girls have gotten married yet in order to thoroughly examine the response.

   A haredi education official explains, "This education institution is for the sector's most righteous girls, who are strict about everything. However, I remain skeptical in regards to the initiative's success, in light of the fact that makeup is acceptable in the haredi society and because it's a particularly exciting day."

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. ambush
   Member

   i don't believe anyone not involved with the people, type of people or lifestyle can comment.
   Their lifestyle is very different- who are we to say what is right and wrong for them?

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. mepal
   Member

   GMAB! Anyways, totally not worth it for a mere 265 bucks.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. Joseph
   Sometimes A Bit Over The Right

   Beautiful initiative.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. the.nurse
   Member

   sorry, but i dont see whats wrong with putting on makeup on your wedding day. this is the most amazing day of your life and you should be able to feel beautiful.

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. gavra_at_work
   Member

   I want to know where the money is coming from.

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. mepal
   Member

   nurse, feel and look. It also depends on which circles these girls are from.

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. luv2hack
   Member

   My husband tells me that it says in the gemara that a girl should put on makeup on her wedding day- I'll ask him where when he gets home

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. Moderator-80
   Member

   I have a feeling this is going to be the Hot Topic of the Week

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. Feif Un
    Proud Modern Orthodox

    What's next? Paying women to cover their hair? Paying men to put on tefiliin every day?

    Posted 2 years ago #

11. the.nurse
    Member

    mepal, maybe it does depend what circle youre from, but if this was a circle where no one put on makeup, the girls wouldnt feel the need to put any on. i've been to weddings where no one wears makeup, including the kallah. that doesn't seem to be the case here.
    also doesn't it mention in the Torah that women used to use things - i.e. makeup, jewelry - to make themselves feel pretty? of course theres a fine line between pretty and overdone but i don't think the makeup itself is the problem.

    Posted 2 years ago #

12. Moderator-80
    Member

    to nurse
    I'm not commenting on the issue here but as far as your statement, it is a Gemorrah that women should adorn themselves, put on makeup, and wear their better clothing, for their husbands, in private, at home.

    Posted 2 years ago #

13. mepal
    Member

    Feif un, I think you know you are wrong. But for those that may agree with you, no where does it say wearing make up is assur. Uncovering your hair is, wearing tefillin is a must, so please dont compare.

    Nurse, that's correct, but I think its pretty odd. Come on, how can you expect that from girls? They're not doing anything wrong. Maybe they should specify to lessen the amount of makeup used, but to totally not allow it? Strange.

    Posted 2 years ago #

14. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    For the record, I don't see what the big deal is. Speaking only about frum weddings, I can say with certainty that roughly 50% or less of people wear makeup to their own wedding. If the number goes up a little, so what?

    Posted 2 years ago #

15. mepal
    Member

    squeak, how would you know? Aren't you standing on the other side of the mechitza? Anyways, I really have no clue where you got that number from. 100% of the weddings I've gone to, the kallah was wearing makeup.

    Posted 2 years ago #

16. striving
    Member

    mepal-
    haha i totally agree with you! all of the weddings i go to the bride wears makeup. 5o% or less? lol totally not!
    i understand that a bride shouldn't wear heavy, provocative, punk/gothic makeup, but some nice makeup to make her look pretty, don't see the problem. it's not like it'll attract attention to her as she is already the center of attention...
    if we really want to address a problem, it should be the problem of kallas wearing very tight gowns - i've seen people who are usually tznius wearing such fitted dresses on their wedding day...

    Posted 2 years ago #

17. the.nurse
    Member

    ok 80, ill give you that

    Posted 2 years ago #

18. Jothar
    F.M.C.R.S. and occasional creator of chaos.

    I guess it depends on whether one moves in chassidish or litvish circles. To each his own.

    Posted 2 years ago #

19. the.nurse
    Member

    squeak, 50%?? the only people i know that dont wear makeup are those that are very chassidish. i havent seen anyone else do it.
    and mepal, i agree with you. theres no issur against wearing makeup.

    Posted 2 years ago #

20. luv2hack
    Member

    100% of the weddings I go to the girl wears makeup. And it is usually much more tastefully done than what she normally wears since a professional has done it.

    Posted 2 years ago #

21. mepal
    Member

    Jothar, chassidic people wear make up by their weddings as well.

    Posted 2 years ago #

22. kapusta
    CR Queen - “Best of luck. Avoid roasted cabbage, don’t eat earwax, and look on the bright side of life!”

    As striving mentioned, the kallah is already the center of attention. Its not like she will be more in the spotlight as the result of her makeup. Its a time that she is supposed to look beautiful, however, makeup should not be used as something just because its "done", and it should be kept within reason. Theres makeup and theres makeup.

    About the OP, I don't think its fair to ask girls to trade in their (possibly) ultimate beauty potential on a once in a lifetime day for money, but I'm sure they did this after asking a rav who is no doubt smarter than me.

    *kapusta*

    Posted 2 years ago #

23. BasYisroel2
    Member

    there is no issur for a girl who is in shidduchim or a kallah to wear makeup .Or any one else for that manner as long as it is refined.If in your circles you don't wear makeup then fine.

    Edited

    Posted 2 years ago #

24. NY Mom
    Member

    What?!! Can someone please explain what is wrong with looking and feeling beautiful at your own wedding? I would love to know which Rabbonim endorse this.

    Posted 2 years ago #

25. mepal
    Member

    welcome back, BY2!!

    Posted 2 years ago #

26. cholentkugelkishke
    Member

    Can one of the resident Talmidai Chachomim of the CR please give us a m'kor where it says that this is ossur l'halachah. I've been by many choshuve chasunos & I don't recall the Kallahs not wearing makeup.

    Posted 2 years ago #

27. Moderator-80
    Member

    Why do you ask for a mikor? Where did anyone say this is ossur l' Halacha?

    Posted 2 years ago #

28. 000646
    Member

    If it will make the kallah feel special and the choson agrees and is really O.K. with doing this, whats the problem? As long as you arnt trying to force it on people who arnt intrested who cares- to each their own.

    Posted 2 years ago #

29. Moderator-80
    Member

    ames
    I didn't get it until now.

    Posted 2 years ago #

30. Jothar
    F.M.C.R.S. and occasional creator of chaos.

    The real question is wearing sheitels by the wedding. Once she gets married she has a din of nesuah and has to cover her hair. It's much more of a halachic concern than makeup. There are many poskim who are meikel, but it's a halachic concern not a hiddur.

    Posted 2 years ago #

31. Moderator-80
    Member

    Not from squeak though. He's an exception and an enigma

    Posted 2 years ago #

32. mepal
    Member

    ames, why? Its actually impressive that she had the anavah to admit to that. ;)

    Posted 2 years ago #

33. mepal
    Member

    Jothar, I'm pretty sure that goes according to your minhag.

    Posted 2 years ago #

34. cholentkugelkishke
    Member

    YW Moderator-80 - I was curious if there's any real m'kor. If it's something that has a Halachic basis - it's a diffrent story than if just a girl school deciding what's appropriate. I'd really like someone to show us some sort of m'kor, if one exists.

    Posted 2 years ago #

35. Moderator-80
    Member

    cholent
    You get me the mikor for Soroh Shneur who insisted that all her ladies buttoned the very top button on their blouses, then I'll get the mikor for these particular individuals who think it important that their ladies do not wear makeup.

    You asked for "a m'kor where it says that this is ossur l'halachah"
    I repeat no one is claiming this to be ossur l' Halachah

    Posted 2 years ago #

36. cholentkugelkishke
    Member

    YW Moderator-80 - I can't get you mekoros for many of the things that the Bais Yaakov system has adopted. But, if you look in Rav Falk's sefer - he brings mekoros for his p'sakim on tznius. The fact remains that mnay, many choshuve women do wear makeup to their chasunos. If there's a m'kor anywhere that this is ossur l'halacha, it brings a new angle to this discussion.

    Posted 2 years ago #

37. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    Wow. All I can say to the two of you (mod80 and ames) is: Flattery will get you everywhere. Thank you. I agree, it was pretty funny to hear people get riled up over nothing (even though I did have a point that I was trying to make, that's for usre lost now so I'll just pretend it was all a joke).

    Posted 2 years ago #

38. areivimzehlazeh
    Member

    (IMO) A kallah that chooses to wear makeup to her own chassuna is acting in direct accordance with the gemara- since the kallah wants to look her best for her chosson/husband.

    Posted 2 years ago #

39. mepal
    Member

    squeak, this thread is strictly women related. Go back to the other side of the mechitzah ;)

    Posted 2 years ago #

40. areivimzehlazeh
    Member

    Like gavra pointed out- I'd like to know where this $$$ is coming from. Is that where my tax deductible donation just went? ;(

    Posted 2 years ago #

41. Be Happy
    Member

    In Yeshaya Perek 3 posuk 16 it says that eye makeup is an abomination to Hashem and one of the causes of Golus. I have heard from a Rov using this posuk as a mekor that it is ossur to wear eye make up . I have since heard from one lady that it means only eye shadow and from somone else only eye liner. I say if not wearing makeup will bring the Geulah closer - please chuck away your makeup!

    Posted 2 years ago #

42. feivel
    talmid

    esther
    in the Gemorrah it states that one of the conditions upon which the land of Eretz Yisroel was divided by Yeshua, was that there must be sellers of womens makeup and ornaments in every city.

    Posted 2 years ago #

43. mepal
    Member

    esther, as far as I know, it is only referring to ostontaneous colored eye shadow.

    Posted 2 years ago #

44. mepal
    Member

    Interesting, feivel.

    Posted 2 years ago #

45. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    mepal, I can't count the number of times that the kallah broke through to my side. If you agree to always keep her on your side then I will stay out of this ;)

    In non-frum (and non-Jewish) weddings it is not at all uncommon for the groom and other male members of the wedding party to wear some makeup, so as to come out better in the pictures and videos. In fact, it is the norm.

    Why don't the frum chassanim? It would make the pictures come out better. Because in our circles, we don't consider it appropriate or necessary for the face of the chassan to be enhanced. If the picture does not come out looking like he is in real life, so what. You can agree or disagree, and if you disagree you can feel free to do differently. It is not halacha that he cannot wear makeup for this purpose.

    Similarly, if you have a community that doesn't feel it is necessary to capture on camera or display the kallah's beauty at her wedding, then it may not be necessary for her to wear makeup either. Again, this would not be halacha but perhaps a chumra that is appropriate for that specific community. As long as they don't start preaching about it to others, or force the girls who will be disappointed, I can't imagine that even jphone, rob, wolfishmusings or other new-chumra opponents could be bothered by this. (Now I will wait for them to tell me how wrong I am).

    I understand that there is more to wearing makeup for girls than simply pictures, but I'm just trying to make this more palatable. Obviously this mindset is far away from the standard that we can assume amongst ourselves in the CR.

    Posted 2 years ago #

46. Be Happy
    Member

    True but ONLY to wear at home!

    Posted 2 years ago #

47. Be Happy
    Member

    There is a special beauty that a kallah has - the shining light of the Shechinah. Why cover it?

    Posted 2 years ago #

48. feivel
    talmid

    im with you esther

    Posted 2 years ago #

49. mepal
    Member

    squeak, try as I might, it never works. Believe me, it gets boring on the other side when the kallah's there!

    And in fact, by the time the kallah's on your side of the mechitza, most of her make up is gone anyways, so I see where you're coming from ;)

    Posted 2 years ago #

50. Joseph
    Sometimes A Bit Over The Right

    "Makeup and perfume is intended to beautify a wife for her husband, beyond this it should be used scarcely if at all."

    Tanchuma Vayishlach Piskah 5 (Cited in Women & the Mitzvot Vol. 2, The Modest Way, by Rabbi Getsel Ellinson, page 80).

    Posted 2 years ago #

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