Shidduchim Stigma’s isn’t the way to go.

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  • #1307045
    MoreOnShidduchim
    Participant

    Let’s end the stigma now

    The middos of emunah and bitachon, they people with mental illness, personify these middos, and of what the Rebbe of Kotzk says on the Gemarah Bava Metzia says that יאוש שלא מדעת which means that a person who gives up on his life is שלא מדעת.

    And that’s what you should be looking for in a shidduch and soul-mate any way by a boy and girl because it says in Mishlei (30) and in “Eishes Chayil” that: “Grace is false and beauty is in vain. It is a G-d-fearing woman that should be praised.” And that’s what you should be looking for in a shidduch: A person who has good midos and Yiras Hashem, the middos of emunah and bitachon. You have a benefit with these people who were עומד בנסיוןand haven’t given up on their lives, and they have maturity – these are some of the malos they have. And they should be sought after because of these “kamoh malos tovos.”

    The Chinuch writes: We have an obligation to go in the ways of Hashem Yisborach to be merciful. Just as Hashem is merciful, so, too, we should be merciful, etc.” (Mitzvah 611). So we shouldn’t have a stigma with marrying people who have mental illness. which is brought down in the Gemarah (Yevomos 79a), which is one of the signs of Klal Yisroel, and not have, G-d forbid, cruelness, because they, the people that have mental illness, know that that’s what Hashem gave them as their nisasyon, and it’s discrimination to think that this is any worse than someone who has diabetes or heart problems.

    IT is very sad that people judge someone that takes medicine, not based on the qualities they have as a talmid chochom, or are a yeri shomayim, or a mechaber of seforim, or best bochur in his shiur, or have a good heart. And the same thing is by a girl. People look at them as if they are a piece of medicine, and not a person, and do not treat them like a regular people.

    If people would give them a chance to show their qualities and they would treat them like a mentch thatit so happens that he has a nisasyon and is on medicine, treat them like people and not like pills. a person that has feeling’s and is smart and is masmid, then you would give the person a chance to see if he is compatible with you, and if you have things in common with him or her, “a gem to people with a faith of steel’ they teach the world to how to live and how to give and how to believe, if i could look into their heart i would see the face of G-d.

    Some people think that they hold a candle to G-d so to say, if thing’s are a certain way in the life especially good by them it will never change to bad, they think they areפארזיכערט to only have good, and they are balei gavos about this, for all it takes is a moment, and they will be traumatized and they will be put on medicine’ , and they will need to go to see a psychiatrist and a psychologist, for all it takes is a moment what every way, and their lives will be turned upside down, for heaven sake why are we treating people on medicine, like a pariah and a second class person, and why do we discrimnate against them, we should realize that they have done nothing wrong, but they have fulfilled the dictum in Tanach “A righteous person will live because of his faith” (Habakkuk 2:4) and they have not rebelled against Hashem, but believed in him through their suffering.

    So shame on you to discrimnate against such precious righteous people: “who carry on when hope is gone, that you live for will come true’, they have weathered all the storm’s they have all come and gone,you are the unsung heroes of the world’, so let’s end the stigma now of not marrying people with mental illness.

    Anonymous

    #1307126

    I do not know if you have any children in the shidduch parshah or not. But to state in such strong terms “So shame on you to discrimnate against such precious righteous people” is IMV harsh. How do you know that the “other side” didn’t consult a Rav and he advised them not to pursue the shidduch? Should they go against Daas Torah?

    #1307132
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    People without mental illness don’t have emuna and bitachon? Why is that implication not discriminatory?

    #1307136
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Marrying a person with any type of illness can be more difficult than marrying someone healthy.
    And if all the stigmatized people are being stigmatized unfairly, why can’t they just marry each other?

    #1307142
    Avi K
    Participant

    RY, it depends on the disease. Thus at least some rabbanim advise people not to reveal minor issues until well into the process. Love conquers all (EH 165:4).

    #1307497

    Avi K: The question of course is what’s a “minor” issue and what’s a “major” issue? We had an issue with one of my children that was I wouldsa is a “major” issue. Still we were advised not to say anything until the shidduch became “serious” (in this case after the 4th date). B”H the shidduch came to fruition.

    #1307530
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Perhaps its time to place less empahasis on shiduchim and focus more on allowing our young men and women to meet and get to know one another without all the stress and pressures of the current system where parents, grandparents, family and friends create a sense of near-hysteria if a date for kiddushin is not fixed within a short time of the first date. There is no “shidduch crisis”; there is cultural crisis where we push marriage on children not ready of marriage and make them feel like damaged goods (especially the girls) if they c’v reach the age of 20 w/o a chooson and baby carriage. In the context of young men and women with some physical illness or emotional disability, they have every obligation to be transparent as to their condition, even if it means taking longer to find their beschert. To do otherwise is deceitful and more likely than not to result in a breakup of the marriage or serious marital disfunction.

    #1308045

    Love conquers all (EH 165:4)

    Seems legit.

     

    Exactly my thought

    #1308097
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Love conquers all (EH 165:4)

    Care to explain?

    #1308179
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If you compare the shidduch market to the housing market, a person who is already ill is like a house that was in a hurricane, and a person who is healthy is like an uninsured house. Obviously people are people and the shidduch market is not the housing market, but just because a healthy person can become sick doesn’t mean it’s not a valid concern if someone is sick.

    #1308170
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Where is EH 165:4?

    Love can do a lot but it doesn’t just fix things. We’re also not supposed to stray after our hearts.

    Also, feelings and emotions change.

    And love could really be chemical in the brain when two people meet and “fall in love” but two years later when they’re partners in life, paying bills, juggling babies, parenting together, and asserting themselves with in-laws, love needs to be practical.

    I too am not a fan of stigma. Yet that does not mean love is everything. If that were true, then why marry Jewish because one can also fall in love with someone who isn’t Jewish? Does love conquer all here too?

    Thank you

    #1308186

    I took EH 165:4 to be Shulchan Aruch Even Haezer 165:4 but that has to do with a yevama not wanting to marry a yavam as he has a “mum” or “Mukas schin”.

    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9728&st=&pgnum=203

    #1308265
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Right – I’m asking him to explain his reference.

    #1308269
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Maybe he means that

    ואפלו היו המומין ההם בבעלה, יכולה היא לומר לאחיך הייתי יכולה לקבל ולך איני יכולה לקבל

    is because she loved him. It doesn’t say that, though.

    #1308566
    Avi K
    Participant

    LB, It is a discussion of the blemishes for which a woman can refuse yibum. Even if her husband had the same blemish she can say that her husband was worth putting up with it but his brother is not. As for love changing, you are confusing the Western idea of love with the Jewish idea, which is having two halves of the same soul and thus wanting to give to the other, The Hebrew word אהבה is related to the Aramaic word הב (give).

    DY, what will you answer when you are asked if you leard דבר בתוך דבר?

    #1308559
    yehudayona
    Participant

    There should be no apostrophe in stigmas.

    #1308583
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    DY, what will you answer when you are asked if you leard דבר בתוך דבר?

    I don’t understand what you’re asking.

    #1308594
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Semicolon – the symbol that seeks to end the stigma on mental illness;

    #1308676
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Let’s end the stigma now

    But we’re so good at stigmatizing people over things that have little or no consequence…

    The Wolf

    #1308732
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    But we’re so good at stigmatizing people over things that have little or no consequence…

    Are you suggesting that mental illness is of little or no consequence?

    #1308755
    Mammele
    Participant

    DY: If you don’t understand what “leard” means it’s because you haven’t leard it yet…
    (Sorry I couldn’t resist.)

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