September 8, 2013 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #973974
Wolf, an eclipse doesn’t accur at every Molad. There is also a 5 degree deviance to take into account.September 8, 2013 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #973975
Wolf, an eclipse doesn’t accur at every Molad. There is also a 5 degree deviance to take into account.
That’s absolutely correct. However, when an eclipse does happen, it can only happen at the molad.
That’s why eclipses are important for the ancients in determining the length of a lunar month. You can’t tell when the molad actually happens — the moon is usually not visible for hours (or even a day) after the conjunction. The only way to know *for certain* when a conjunction happens is by viewing a solar eclipse. Without an eclipse, you don’t know for certain which when the conjunction occurred.
The WolfSeptember 8, 2013 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #973977
JF – that is not the issue. Whether or not a woman is married or not, busy with kids or not, the fact is that we were wired differently in order to manage with these roles.September 8, 2013 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #973978
little sally saucer: I address a lot of your questions throughout the thread. Have you gone through the entire thing? I do not want to repeat myself.
“No need to learn Gemora and become even more confused about things you never thought of.”
Why in the world would learning gemara confuse me? It would confuse me to the same extent it confuses the thousands of men who learn gemara every day.
Anyway, thank you all for your input. I spoke to one of my rabbis, who is a rosh yeshiva, and got a positive green light to learn gemara. Whatever. Just proves to me that my reasoning was right all along. And if I’d done it without asking would it be wrong? I think not, because I would not be violating any halacha anyway.
Now the question is only how and when I will do it.
This post has already taken too much time from me… so I’ll leave you all to argue the rest through.September 8, 2013 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #973979
I’m curious to see where this goes. Learn some Bava Kama and we’ll have it out!
(Suggestion: Maybe don’t learn Gittin or Niddah or Kiddushin or Kesuvos; you might get offended.)September 9, 2013 2:21 am at 2:21 am #973980
Levaryehboy: you didn’t have to wait till the end of the thread to tell me the REAL reason chazal were reluctant to let women learn gemara – they were scared women would get offended. Simple solution: make sure they don’t learn it.
Also shows me the superficiality with which you grasp chazal’s statements.September 9, 2013 4:41 am at 4:41 am #973981
BYM- Well that just answered my question as to your sincerity. You clearly assume Chazal don’t want women to get offended by Gemara, and therefore banned it.
Please don’t try to hide behind the innocent BY graduate seeking more understanding through Gemara. Such a girl wouldn’t bash Chazal like you just did. So what’s your real agenda here?September 9, 2013 4:44 am at 4:44 am #973982
Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you are questioning Chazal. If so, why are you trying to put yourself in the Orthodox world where we hold the words of Chazal dear?September 9, 2013 5:19 am at 5:19 am #973983
You can pick up an Artscroll and begin on your own. There was never an Issur for an individual to pick up a Sefer and learn. There is no Issur Histaklus on Torah.
One of the 48 things necessary for Kinyan Hatorah is Emunas Chachamim. Don’t start by judging if it makes sense; start by trying to learn and understand why it makes sense. The logic in Gemara is fluid at times, and the assumptions change on a dime.
Also, when something is gleaned from a Pasuk it might not seem obvious to you how that is seen from the Pasuk. That’s the way it is for most of us and we just move on and take it for granted that for the Tanaim and Amoraim there was a method to it. Even the Ammoraim would hardly deduce Halachos from a Pasuk on their own. They usually do backward engineering to figure out where the Tanna got it from. And according to many, the Tannaim themselves actually knew the Halacha before gleaning it from the Pasuk. They learned the Halacha along with its Makor, from their Rebbe.
By the way, did you ever read Rav Hirsh’s Horeb? He gives an understanding into the reasoning of Mitzvos while from the Gemara you’ll see how the Halacha got to where it is. I’m not clear which one you want more.September 9, 2013 7:53 am at 7:53 am #973984
notasheep, I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Can you clarify?September 9, 2013 10:12 am at 10:12 am #973985
BYM: I don’t understand the need for permission or social acceptance? The Gemara, Shulchan Aruch and Rambam are absolutely explicit that learning of her own volition, there is even reward.
Go to it, enjoy it and stop worrying what others may think – the right on your side.September 9, 2013 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #973986
From the moment you asked earlier why the boys would look at the girls but the girls wouldn’t look at the boys, I realized that you obviously don’t know the differences between boys and girls, so I realized it was pointless to debate the subject.
You also said you were intelligent. Yeah, no. You took something I said, put your own explanation into it, and then insulted me for saying something which you said.
I suggested (somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as was clear from the context) not to learn certain Masechtos. Learning in-depth about blood stains, the obligations a woman has to her husband, the very graphic descriptions and logical analyses of hara’ah, neshikas ha’ever, shelo k’darkah … (need I say more?) may offend your somewhat feminist, or at least feminine, self.
You somehow decided that I meant that this was the reason Chazal said women shouldn’t learn Gemara, even though I specifically gave completely different explanations previously, and gave no indication whatsoever that this was what I meant.
Also, if you’re frustrated/mad/upset/angry with the Bais Yakov system for teaching you to be Jewish for the “wrong reasons”, look at the Rambam in Hilchos Teshuva 10:5 where you’ll see that they were 100% correct.September 9, 2013 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #973987
LAB: She was making fun of what you said. I took her post as being entirely tongue-in-cheek.September 9, 2013 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #973988
Halevai we should all live up to our roles that Hashem gave us and not kriech in himmel for things that have no shaychis to us.September 9, 2013 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #973989
LAB- kudos. im sick of these feminist whiners.September 9, 2013 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #973990
“You also said you were intelligent. Yeah, no.”
See http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rules-of-the-ywn-coffee-room-please-read#post-32914, specifically the following:
“The purpose of the Coffee Room is to be a place where people can come and talk about all different topics and express their opinion in a polite, respectable manner.”September 9, 2013 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #973991
jewfem, I thought LevAB was actually being very polite and respectable. You probably don’t want to know what I was thinking when I read the post he politely responded to. My lack of response was not because I had no response. It was because there was nothing courteous about it.
Sam2, I didn’t see any tongue in any cheek. The post stands as posted until the author says she was only kidding… Doubtful.September 9, 2013 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #973994
Apparently, Sam2 was the only one who understood me. 🙂
“Also shows me the superficiality with which you grasp chazal’s statements.” This line was supposed to make it obvious that I was sarcastic by saying chazal didn’t want women to learn gemara because they will be offended. Goodness.
Peirsuh: If levaryehboy thinks the gemara is insulting women, he has a superficail grasp of what chazal meant when they said certian things.
Or, his biases automatically make him think certian things are denigrating to women, when, they are really not.
My proof of this:
“Learning in-depth about blood stains, the obligations a woman has to her husband, the very graphic descriptions and logical analyses of hara’ah, neshikas ha’ever, shelo k’darkah … (need I say more?) may offend your somewhat feminist, or at least feminine, self.”
I was laughing really hard when I read this paragraph. I cannot for the life of me understand why any of this would me more offensive to a woman than a man. The only reason it would be offensive is if you MAKE it offensive. Like LevAryehBoy does quite well. There is nothing OBJECTIVELY offensive in any of this.
1) “obligations a woman has to her husband”… Do you find it insulting when you learn about the D’ORAISA obligations of onah a man has to his wife? This carries much more halachic weight than the other way around.
2) “learning in depth about blood stains”. Would you find it insulting to learn in-depth about the halachos applying to a male zav? Or other forms of tumah?
3) “the very graphic descriptions and logical analyses of… neshikas ha’ever, shelo k’darkah … ” Why in the world would any of this be offending to a woman and not a man? And what in the world do they have to do ith feminism?
“From the moment you asked earlier why the boys would look at the girls but the girls wouldn’t look at the boys, I realized that you obviously don’t know the differences between boys and girls,”
Again, this provided some good comic relief. Levaryehboy – you need to learn to read more critically.
I have some news for you about the “difference between boys and girls” – some things are not that different. In a room full of adolescent boys and girls, the girls are looking at the guys too. Maybe a a little less because they are not as visual, but trust me, they are looking. So here’s some education for you.
“You also said you were intelligent.”
No I didn’t, but thank you for the compliment.
Sigh. I think some posters could use a boost in reading comprehension. Maybe Sam2 could help.September 9, 2013 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #973995
Golfer: Actually the last line of her post shows very clearly that the previous paragraph was toungue-in-cheek.September 9, 2013 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #973996
BYM’s last line shows me that she was tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic or whatever in the first paragraph. Her tone of voice shows that she is sick and tired of the attacks she is getting. Some people didn’t get it.
From now on please mark your sarcasm. XML tags are quite helpful – like this: <sarcasm> sarcastic words here </sarcasm>September 9, 2013 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #973997
To bais yakov maidel:
Try the YU shiurim website – YUTorah.org
Also, if your husband agrees with you then why don’t you just study Talmud with him?September 9, 2013 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #973998
To bais yakov maidel:
Also, if you’re interested in more advanced, logical, and analytical hashkafa check out hashkafacircle.com
Probably different than what you’ve been exposed to.
There really are a lot of deeper and more advanced hashkafa works available but they’re not popular in Charedi circles. One of the most famous is Halachic Man by Rav Joseph Dov Soloveitchik; it’s available in English and would appeal to someone with a background in philosophy. Based on your description of what’s bothering you I would suggest reading this book – it’s available from Amazon.September 9, 2013 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #973999
mdg and whatdoyouknow – didn’t see your posts before. Yes, I put in that line to ensure it was obvious that I was sarcastic.
lakewood: I also wonder why frum people have a completely inaccurate view of female psychology and think that women don’t have urges or that their attraction to men is all emotional…September 9, 2013 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #974000
“As an aside the belief that women were intellectually inferior was near universal in the times of Chazal so it doesn’t detract from them that they believed that to be the case.”
According to the Rambam, most women don’t have their intellect focused (ein daatan mechuvanot IIRC) as a man would. He does not say that most women don’t have the ability, but rather, as I would put it, most just don’t have the desire to focus and stay focused. From what I see, BYM does have it.
I remember learning Ketubot with my wife a number of years ago (before kids). I was quite impressed with a question that she brought up after we learned the Gemara and Rashi on the sugya. It was Tosfot’s question.
BYM, I wish you much hatslacha in learning !September 9, 2013 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #974001
“Do you find it insulting when you learn about the D’ORAISA obligations of onah a man has to his wife?”
We actually learned that a week ago in Daf Yomi. (It is covered in several places in Shas.) I was not insulted.
“learning in depth about blood stains”
The gemara in Niddah says that many women at that time were very learned in those areas, and that they consulted with each other and even decided halachah. Essentially there is a talmudic precedent for the modern institution of the Yoetzet Halachah.
We also recently saw in Daf Yomi that the single person who was cited as THE example of a top gemara learner was — Beruriah.September 9, 2013 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #974002
The gemara in Niddah says that many women at that time were very learned in those areas, and that they consulted with each other and even decided halachah. Essentially there is a talmudic precedent for the modern institution of the Yoetzet Halachah.
Not quite. It says that a certain woman told Rav Yitzchok that his father, Rav Yehuda, was mattir that particular type of condition, and the Gemara discusses if you can take her word.
We also recently saw in Daf Yomi that the single person who was cited as THE example of a top gemara learner was — Beruriah.
Or at least as someone who tried to master a lot but didn’t complete it, as the one telling the anecdote seemingly did.September 9, 2013 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #974003
Sam2: LAB: She was making fun of what you said. I took her post as being entirely tongue-in-cheek.
I’m sorry I missed that. I haven’t seen her say anything tongue-in-cheek this entire thread, so I wasn’t expecting it. My apologies.
jewishfeminist02 – Again, I read her comment as calling me superficial. I give what I get.
baisyakovmaidel: First of all, I apologize for what I said before. I took what you said as a barb, and I replied in kind.
If levaryehboy thinks the gemara is insulting women…
I never said that. I said you might get offended – as Webster defines “2.Be displeasing to: “the smell of smoke offended him”. Certain “touchy” subjects are often not for the squeamish or the faint of heart. Please do not tell me that men and women are equally squeamish.
I also pointed out in the next post that I had said it tongue-in-cheek, so there’s that.
ome things are not that different. In a room full of adolescent boys and girls, the girls are looking at the guys too. Maybe a a little less because they are not as visual, but trust me, they are looking.
Do boys and girls also watch adult content equally? Also, why do boys have mitzvos of shmiras einayim which virtually do not apply to girls?September 9, 2013 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #974004
“Do boys and girls also watch adult content equally” No, men outdo women in general. But statistically, women do it as well, much more than you think. Besides, there are analogous things that females are more prone to doing that men don’t do. But it’s the same taivah driving it. Just the other side of the same coin.
“Also, why do boys have mitzvos of shmiras einayim which virtually do not apply to girls?”
Some say it applies to women as well. My rav, though, holds that it does not because there is no ensuing issur as a result. This does NOT mean it is recommended for a woman to view inappropriate material or that she should, or that it’s good. It’s just that, strictly speaking, it does not hold the same issur. I think that’s the most I can say in such a forum.
However, although I have no problem discussing any of these topics, I would like to ensure that this thread does not get closed, so let’s try to keep everything appropriate please, and not veer too much off the main topic.September 9, 2013 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #974005
Men and Women were not created equally. Only a Feminist or Feminist Supporter would disagree.
That being said, men and women have distinct characteristics which enable them to fulfill their roles in the world.
As an erudite and distinguished science major.
I would think you would be well aware of these differences (you’ve studied Bio, Psych., and a myriad of other subjects which should have given you crystal-clear insight into human relations(birds and the bees) and relationships.
In a coed classroom guys will 9/10 be more drawn to stare at the girls then visa versa. Yes. Girls will be interested in guys but not the same way and definitely not the same nature as guys.
The Gemara, in reference to relationships, was meant to bring out clear scenarios and if it does so in a very graphic way, then a girl who as LAB mentioned is squeamish won’t enjoy learning it very much -to say the least.
Having studied the sciences and feeling the need to broaden your scope of ascertaining clear knowledge and understanding of Yiddishkeit. I would recommend you find a competent Rabbi that will assist you in your study.
May you continue to strive for understanding and I think a trip to Neve Yerushalayim would be a perfect opportunity to study the Gemara in depth!!!September 10, 2013 1:00 am at 1:00 am #974007
I find it hilarious that scientifically it is a proven fact that women are different then men in every level.
The bodies of Men and Women are completley different (unless it becomes commen for men to give birth and nurse.
Emotianally Men and Women are different.
In fact Men and women speak differently.
Ask any Marketing Expert if it would be a good idea to market a product the exact same way to Men and Woman.
And yet for some reason when Chazal lay out how the religous obligations for a man and woman are different and in fact thei “tachlis hachayim” is different some people are askance.
Silly.September 10, 2013 1:15 am at 1:15 am #974008
It’s when they say that women are intellectually inferior that people get offended.. Saying men and woman are different in of itself is not what offends most people.September 10, 2013 1:22 am at 1:22 am #974009
Ben Levi, men and women are quite different. But not in any way you describe.September 10, 2013 1:39 am at 1:39 am #974010
BYM: How so???
Are women’s emotional, intellectual, hormonal, social, sexual, physical psyches similar to men??
Have you read, “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”?
Wouldn’t you know since you repeatedly conveyed that you are a erudite science aficionado!
I believe that’s what Ben Levi meant.September 10, 2013 8:50 am at 8:50 am #974011
JF, you want clarification. Just for the record, how old are you and are you married yet? Cause that will make a big difference whether or not you get what I am saying. This is an example of the way a woman functions on a daily basis:
Wakes up in the morning, puts on a load of laundry, goes to wake up the kids, goes downstairs and prepares breakfast/lunches/snacks, goes back upstairs, gets dressed, makes sure kids are getting dressed, feeds the baby, serves breakfast, dresses toddler who can’t quite manage himself, checks on laundry, maybe eats breakfast but usually not, realises the time and rushes everyone out to school. Takes the opportunity to do some shopping, comes home, dumps shopping on kitchen table, sorts laundry and puts it in the dryer – another load goes in the machine. Baby’s due a feed, notices some papers that should have been tidied away last night. Back to kitchen, start preparing supper, chops some onions, notices the unpacked shopping, puts it away whilst onions are frying, phone rings, pick it up and talk to mother/mother-in-law/sister/friend whilst holding baby in one hand and stirring onions in the pot with another…
The rest of the day is pretty much the same. We multitask, start with a job and then start something else once that is underway, then the next and somehow everything gets done (usually) by the end of the day.
Men, on the other hand, can ONLY really concentrate on one job at a time. If they are on the phone, everything else has to stop (my husband cannot do anything whilst he is on the phone). When it comes to cooking in the kitchen (if they can, I am blessed in that area) they cannot divide their time between loads of different things cooking whilst trying to see to the kids at the same time.
Men need this focus and one-track mind in order to learn gemara. The way a woman divides her time and focus means that we would find it harder to sit down and concentrate on a gemara for any significant length of time.January 1, 2018 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1440413
I’m kind of sad I wasn’t around when this op was posted. BYM are you still around?January 1, 2018 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1440736January 2, 2018 7:45 am at 7:45 am #1440868
ChabadShlucha: What would you tell the OP if she were listening? (She and others with the same thought process may still be lurking.)January 2, 2018 8:55 am at 8:55 am #1440905
I’m waiting for litvishe chossid to tell us all what I would say as to him its old news 😜January 2, 2018 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #1441094
girls learn gemara in high school.January 2, 2018 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1441138
As lc didn’t do it for me here goes :
What the op describes is exactly why the Rebbe advocated girls learning in general, above what they need to know, which if a man would know all halacha etc that a woman needs to know, he’d be a gaOn –
But aside for that the Rebbe advocated all higher education for women because of the spiritual danger involved otherwise :
In the times past, a Jewish woman imbibed all her knowledge and yiras shomayim from the home – and it was great.
But today women and girls are fully educated in the secular subject, and they can mistakenly conclude that Yiddishkeit can’t match it cvs. So we must educate them up to par.
In the past, it was dangerous to teach such things to girls, because by nature, girls go with more emuna, and less daas, so why teach them questions and then maybe they won’t get the answers and they’ll have questions on Yiddishkeit for no reason.
It could cause harm and unnecessary so why do it?
But today, we are taught to question in the science classes etc, so aderabe women must be taught everything.January 2, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1441154
” so aderabe women must be taught everything”
LolJanuary 2, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1441156
Sorry, got cut off.
Would the Rebbe advocate girls learn gemarah? Because times changed?January 2, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1441159
Lastly, the reason women get offended is because women are blessed with a profound sense of understanding, bina. The Daas that were not so strong in naturally, is the drei kup stuff like 15 opinions on what the halacha could be based on the wording of the mishna. The 15 or 50 different ways don’t interest me and I will get lost in the debate on the nuances unless it makes a practical difference to me.
But to ask a deep question is our strength and we get insulted when anyone doesn’t respect our bina Yesaira.January 2, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1441161
Chabadshlucha: I was under the impression that Chabad girls learn Gemara but mainly through Ein Yaakov, as the Rebbe specifically suggested. Is this correct, or do girls today actually learn Gemara as boys do, focusing on its halachic discussions as well?January 2, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1441164
“In the past, it was dangerous to teach such things to girls, because by nature, girls go with more emuna, and less daas, so why teach them questions and then maybe they won’t get the answers and they’ll have questions on Yiddishkeit for no reason.”
Regarding Talmud – Where do you get that? It is not mentioned in Rishonim on the topic in Sotah 21b.
כל המלמד את בתו תורה מלמדה תיפלות: תיפלות ס”ד אלא אימא כאילו למדה תיפלות
כאילו. שמתוכה היא מבינה ערמומית ועושה דבריה בהצנע
Tosfos quotes a Yerushalmi:
ירושלמי דבן עזאי דלא כר”א בן עזריה דדריש (חגיגה דף ג.) הקהל את העם האנשים והנשים והטף אנשים באו ללמוד נשים לשמוע ונראה דפי’ דמצוה לשמוע הנשים כדי שידעו לקיים מצוה ולא משום שידעו שזכות תולה א] : מטרונה שאלה את ר’ אלעזר מפני מה ב] חטא אחת במעשה העגל והן מתין בה ג’ מיתות אמר לה אין אשה חכמה אלא בפלך אמר לו הורקנוס בנו בשביל שלא להשיבה דבר אחד מן התורה אבדת ממני ג’ מאות כור מעשר בכל שנה ג] א”ל ישרפו ד”ת ולא ימסרו דברי תורה לנשים:
In any case, its a heter and is based on the Chafetz Chaim saying: Ais La’asos Hashem Heferu etc being that women are educated more open-minded etc and there is no choice..
However, I don’t think a woman teaching it to herself was any issue in the first place…January 2, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1441169
I couldn’t get through all the posts here. But I just want to say that I very much resonate with bais yakov maidel. I am a very intellectually honest person, despite all the attempts of our culture to squish that in me. And I realized soon after getting out of BY system that I am really ignorant in Judasim . My years in school and seminaries have been largely a waste. I have not been able to invest much time in study since then, since I am a mother of many young children bh. And I feel a real void. But everything that keeps me on track is what I learned on my own, outside of the Bais Yakov system, and definitely it is nothing coming from the “Yeshivish world”. Judaism has always evolved with the times, and all the different opinions from different eras that have been passed down to us reflect the time and place in which they originated. People here have been quoting the Rambam. The Rambam also writes in his Mishne Torah that a man can beat his wife with a stick (he may need permission of Bais Din, unclear from text) if she refuses to wash his feet or make his bed. Some things from a different era just can’t work today, and some things that work for general klal can’t work for individual people. And the stubborn ideology that an opinion of a particular Rav, or a chumrah accepted by a specific community is more important than well being of a Jew, or unity of the Jewish people is destroying us.January 2, 2018 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1441157
But I think she confused male ego with Torah with the story of her cousin. Men tend to talk one up or one down, women talk to each other as equals.
That being said it is unfortunate that because the boys tend to Emphasise the daaton kalos part and not the bina Yesaira part, due to above mentioned male ego, there can be such a distortion in the way they view women’s intelligence as enough lies or half truths repeated tend to sink in as the new truth.
In secular culture, its unthinkable to express such notions, it should be in our Culture too, as Torah never demeaned women but just the opposite, was nizhar with our kovod. I don’t experience such attitude within my world, and I don’t see why any woman should.January 2, 2018 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1441162
Lastly for now, if you have questions or want to understand the prufundity and glance at the sheer intellectual depth, complexity yet unity within Torah, and logical understandings, I would suggest you learn Chassidus, starting with the second part of Tanya, shaar hayichud vhoemuna. What’s amazing about it is that it doesn’t only make sense but it resonates within.
Another perk is that Chassidus quotes and brings together all parts of Torah – and that’s actually where I have at least half of my knowledge of gemara from. So you can get two in one 🙂 with the inner meaning with it.
Like try learning the story of rabba shechting Rav Zeira on Purim one year, reviving him the next day through davening, and then not only NOT doing teshuva for slaughtering someone, but cheerfully offering to do it again the next year. (R’ Zeira respectfully declines because miracles don’t happen every time.)
And these are our holy Tanaim! Learning the plain story can leave you riddled with questions. But it’s such a geshmake story when learned with Chassidus. And that’s how I learned this story in the gemara!
If you have any specific questions, since you can’t call me by phone, feel free to ask here and we’ll all address your questions.
This would conclude my answer to the op 🙂January 2, 2018 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1441229
I am a very intellectually honest person, despite all the attempts of our culture to squish that in me. And I realized soon after getting out of BY system that I am really ignorant in Judasim . My years in school and seminaries have been largely a waste. I have not been able to invest much time in study since then, since I am a mother of many young children bh. And I feel a real void.
Mindful – Can we meet up and learn something together while our kids play like little angels together. I could’ve written this. Word for word.January 2, 2018 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1441216
“Women talk to each other as equals”
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