Reply To: Mussar from current events

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#1001319
HaKatan
Participant

I highly doubt we are reading the same commentaries, and I’m sure your interpretation vis-a-vis Israel is nothing that any legitimate Rabbi would have ever said, but I presume you are attempting to base your untenable position on our holy Torah, so I certainly respect your mistake.

As we both agree, the power of Tefillah is awesome.

But you still seem to not understand that the outcome of tefillah can be calamitous, R”L L”A as it was when Jews mistakenly prayed for the State to come into being instead of praying for Mashiach.

You write your father fought for “freedom of Israel”? So now the Zionists equate 1948 with yetzias mitzrayim, too? What freedom? There was no captivity. Nobody forced anyone to stay anywhere. And even for those who were there, the chareidim had no problem with British rule, were it not for the Zionists needlessly provoking the savages there, and even then they still wanted the Zionists to just go away and not make things any worse than the Zionists already had.

You also write about the “numerous yeshivas and prayer groups spreading throughout the country”. Even assuming this is true and also assuming that it is also true only because of Zionism – in fact, Zionism is irrelevant to this – was that worth the tens of thousands of lives and families destroyed for this idol?

The idolatry espoused by leading MO and “Religious Zionist” Rabbis answers, essentially, yes. This is on record. The Torah, of course, holds the opposite of their deeply mistaken view. This, too, is on record; see Rav Schwab regarding “Talmid chacham sheEin bo deah”.

I’m sure your father meant well, but the facts are that Israel was and is a disaster of unparalleled historic proportions to our people, never mind the rest of the world.

As to the world changing and all that, it’s not that it’s “hard to accept this change”. Israel’s existence is, of course, a (current) fact. But it’s simply a non-starter that the mere existence of Zionism should somehow grant it any Torah legitimacy.

You choose to go with an emotional sevara that’s against the Torah, while I choose to adopt the view of the sages of the Torah that they expressed well before your father fought for that idolatrous State and that they continue to express until this day. Nowhere have you justified any of the idolatry and kefirah of Zionism. But that’s understandable, because nobody can justify the unjustifiable.

Of course, then, we agree to disagree.