Reply To: Hakaras Hatov for Israeli Soldiers (IDF)

hakatan- you need to understand that: 1)Secular Zionism as is generally defined today – is wrong and against the Torah according to all Poskim. It is unfathomable that concepts such as the wanting to be like the other nations in every way etc -is the Jewish peoples true objective. Rather, we are to be an ohr la’goyim/mamleches kohanim vi’goy kadosh- that maintains its differences – “am li’vadad yishkon”. WE are to strike a balance- between being a nation apart from all the others that also interacts with and leads the world toward Kovod Shamayim.

2) Even so – you equate the state – an officially democratic and neutral state-which is neither frum or non-frum – run by a majority of tinok shenishba jews-With a signifcant charedi population –which in the future will take over the govt by sheer numbers- as being EQUAL To Zionsim. This logic is untenable— Zionism in its secular conception is wrong and against the hashakafas haTorah– BUT the democratic neutral state, is an independent halachik question over which gedolim were divided based on various issues– however many Gedolim took a more lenient approach as explained in previous posts and by Hashgachas Hashem the state came about.

3) You seem to be under the assumption that had we not declared a state in 1948 with permission of UN(binding all nations to resolution) — the Arabs would have let us just live there and we would just look down and take any punches that arose– you are so wrong – the arabs were out for jewish blood even during the holocaust period making deals and meeting with Hitler — and had the allied forces not beaten the german forces- Israel would have been taken over and all jews executed with the help of our arab neighbors- This is documented fact. So when you say it was pikuach nefesh to declare state- No- it was Pikuach nefesh not to declare state and give us a fighting chance al pi teva to survive after reeling from the holocaust. You see, the world turned a blind eye to this destruction. Lastly, while the oaths do not allow us to rebel against nations we also have a principal of HABA LI’HARGICHA HASHKEM LI’HARGO and VI’CHAI BA’HEM which would mandate we do not die as sheep to the slaughter. While you may want to make the case the BECAUSE of the state NOW everyone is against the jews-this is untrue- they have always been against us — just look in the years earlier during holocaust – without the state- where world let us die on a mass scale for too long-. Many would argue that nonjews( as a whole )generally were against the jews anyways(look at history) – and the state makes no difference – and in fact does the opposite- the idea that israel has nukes, army, elite units who take care of the shadow targets (with Hashem’s help) help actually to dissuade larger scale attacks and murders of jewish people.