Reply To: Getting kids to listen to you

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#1037273
SpiceofLife
Member

Popa, you asked how do I know it’s a myth?

I’ve thought about this, but not sure how to answer. One thing I am sure is that I’m sure.

Begins even with little things: Once went to PTA, & they report about my angelic daughter,teacher’s dream etc.. & of course add on that they can see what a good home she comes from, so well brought up, da da da. On same day, my (then) very mischievous 2 1/2 year old did some climbing, while I tried to stop him, & s/o yelled at me “You don’t teach your kids how to behave?!!”… That amazing girl & ‘terrible’ boy brought up by same parents, I got misplaced credit for 1 (she was a natural ‘gutta’) & misplaced criticism for the other (he was a ball of mischief & I was doing way more than the average mother to ‘educate’ him)….(He got past that age & became really easy B”H).

If it was only with little ones, wouldn’t be such a big deal. But I’ve seen with plenty of teenagers (B”H not my own). After parents did amazing job, giving gallons of love, gentle discipline, excellent sholom bayis loads of tefillos…& still something goes wrong eg. kid goes off derech, or eg. kid becomes mentally ill… Not enough the deep heartache? No, on top of that, they need society smugly judging them too…. “Oh, parents were too strict” “Parents were too relaxed & didn’t give enough discipline” “Something weird in that house” “That boy is violent.. his father must be like that too behind closed doors” “Kid had nervous breakdown b/c parents pressured him too much” etc etc.

Of course, if parents are doing things wrong eg. being abusive, eg. not providing enough love, eg.arguing with their spouse a lot… then yes, it impacts kids very badly. But not every case of kids having issues is b/c of parents.

Surely parents see with their own kids, how some are just born with easygoing natures, & without doing much, they’re happy & polite & easy to raise. And others are born into same home, & somehow every time there’s a fight, they’re there. Every time s/o’s crying, they’re around… always causing trouble. Parents work very hard trying to tame & gently encourage the difficult child.

(This ‘difficult child’ phenomenon isn’t something fixed. Often the one who was an angel at age 5, can be a difficult teen, & the one who wrecks everything as a 2 year old, can be a really sunny 12 year old…)

There’s genetics (the nature as opposed to nurture), friends, neighbors, teachers, rebbis, reading material, internet, & the child/teen himself who (as I already said) has his own bechira… So many factors involved.

Of course if we parents do our best, give loads of love & understanding, make our homes a very happy place, are emotionally in tune with kids, provide gentle discipline, have good sholom bayis (this also is not always in parents’ hands), daven, build the kids self esteem up, and we ourselves serve as a good example, then yes, we’re giving our kids a much better chance at turning out right…

Sorry I don’t have ways to prove my ‘myth’ theory. I’m not an official survey taker so I don’t have hard data. But I’ve met loads of people & read a lot on this topic over the last 20 years, & I’m sure of my opinion.

You, & a/o else reading this, can take it or leave it. But even those who completely disagree, would still agree that parents aren’t always the guilty party. Even Barry above (whom Popa agrees with) used the words ‘most of the time’ & not ‘all the time’. So don’t be quick to judge when you see a kid/teen/adult off the derech/mentally ill/behaving badly etc. His/her parents are in enough pain as it is, & maybe they’re the ones not in the ‘most’ category, but in the other few.

There’s plenty of parents who do lots wrong, & their kids turn out fine, or better than fine, & vice versa too.

Look how Rifka Imeinu turned out after the house of Besuel, & Rochel after the house of Lavan. Look how Yishmael came from Avrohom & Eisav came from Yitzchok… (Of course you can find meforshim who put some slight blame on parents even there in various ways, but doesn’t change the big picture). No-one has any guarantees with their kids.

Sorry, going on so long, but another thing I wanted to mention, is, it also depends where one is coming from. If we’re looking as a child at our parents, we need to have one kinds of perspective (as forgiving, understanding & appreciative as we can manage, unless they did things really wrong. We need to understand that there’s more than one way to show love, that they did their best, that we don’t know all the issues they had to grapple with…). If we’re looking at ourselves as parents, then we need to hold ourselves to a very high standard & do our best to improve, by reading, getting advice, assessing things regularly, by working hard on ourselves, etc.

May bringing up kids go easily & well for e/o, but let us not be so proud & smug as to give ourselves all the credit. Yes, we can pat ourselves on the back for trying our best & doing a good job, but know that it’s only hishtadlus. We need to thank Hashem for kids that turn out right.

Sorry such a megilla.