Reply To: Techeiles 🔵❎🐌☑️🐟

“Why don’t you go ask rabbi miller why someone would use an expensive forgery?”

That would be a kashya on the murex being kala ilan. That doesn’t mean that according to the conventional pshat that plant indigo is kala ilan that you can’t say my afforementioned svara.

“Very simple. Look in shabbos 75a once again. ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? which means that you are dyeing it after it is already dead.”

Yes that is the first answer that the gemara gives. I was quoting the Gemara’s second answer. The implication of the second answer is that there it is important to keep the chilazon alive. Whereas with the murex there would be no point in trying to keep it alive considering that the dye would be just as good right after it dies. However, it does seem that the two answers are in stira to each other.

“Now if you research this you will find out that in the water and the first few hours a after it comes out of the water, the shell is the color of the area it is taken from either blue or green.”

Keep in mind that the braisa was trying to describe a chilazon. If one was asked describing the murex trunculus, saying that it is the color of the ocean is a very poor description.

“Why not? have you ever seen a good picture of it? how about a picture of any other snail? which one looks like a fish and which one does not?”

Snails don’t look like fish.

“See the radvaz in chelek 2 in 685 that says nignaz means it stops coming up.”

I’m not sure how this addresses my point.

“You were mechavein to tosfos in shabbos 75a dh ki. I will quote it for you ????? ?? ?”? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????”

Where in this quote of Rabeinu Tam do you see that it is not the blood that is used for dyeing but rather a different secretion?

“Yet at the same time we know for a fact that it was caught using nets (see shabbos 74b)”

Again I am not sure how this addresses my point.