Poshuteh Yid:
I would like to comment on an earlier post you wrote.
You write that chareidim tack on extra layers of culture. I would like to suggest that much of the time, if not always, it is rooted in halacha, or a desire to make gedarim on the halacha. The “culture” does not come from nowhere.
To take having a pet as an example, the reason why in general chareidim don’t have pets is because there are halachic considerations with touching pets on shabbos. as far as I know it is muktza. But I see families who own dogs and cats who disregard that. Plus, other poskim say there may be problems with tzaar baalei chaim. Also putting a bird in a cage is tzod. So, while I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with owning a pet, I’m explaining that the prevalent culture arose over the years because of halachic considerations attached to it. (I have a friend whose daughter was begging to own a dog. The parents asked their Rav and he stronly discouraged owning a dog because a dog is brought as an example of the lowest animal in the gemara. They got another cage pet instead)( Please dont take me apart for this, for as I said many times, i am not a talmid chochom and I cannot give you sources. I am ony repeating what I heard)
Of course, another obvious reason we dont have pets is because we in general have alot more kids than your average goy who has one and a half children, and the time, expense and bother is unwanted.
But even in the gemara there were halachos paskened based on the culture. One example comes to mind, where there was a halacha not to wear a certain color shoelace because that was the style. So the “culture” became not too wear it. If you would have been there you may have said “kol hamosif garua”.
About that sad story of the bandana, as someone on this blog wrote, you seem to look for and find and then use as proof the most outlandish stories. Tell me, do you really believe these stories are typical??? You will have insensitive people in every group. But insensitivity is not a symptom of our olam more than any other group. If anything–it is the opposite!
Wearing black and white is not a halacha nor does it make the wearer a bigger tzaddik. All it does is IDENTIFY them with the yeshiva world, which on the whole is a world more medakdek in Torah and mitzvos. You can be one who wears black and white and be the biggest rasha, and You can be a bigger tzaddik or Talmid chochom in colored shirts. No one will deny that. But just dont knock those who make it a point to wear the yeshiva uniform without understanding what its about. By someone wearing it, they are saying they want people to associate them with the yeshiva world.
The examples you brought about sports is exclusive to the israeli chareidim. There are many obvious reasons that one can suggest why and how this mentality came about, all in an effort to preserve Torah. Among them, bitul Torah and not to follow the chukas Hagoyim. It is my firm belief, having lived in EY myself, that the American can not fully appreciate the Israeli mentality and vice versa. We should not seek to judge them by our standards. But even Israelis do not encourage exercize in and of itself. Playing sports is not the only way to get exercize.
The bottom line is, and I think you will agree with me on this one, that it is incumbent for people to know the difference between halacha, minhag, chumros and “culture” or “tradition”. Then we will know how to set our priorities. As Rav Yisroel Salanter says, if someone wakes up real early to run to daven and in the process wakes others up, or if he fervently swings his talis right into someones eyes, or if he yells at his wife for not covering the challos, he is trading in a de’oreisa (not to hurt others) for a “frumkeit” or minhag. I myself was once criticized by a chassidish person for not adhering to a certain minhag, which that person didn’t realize was only a chassidish, hungarian minhag, but thought that it was halacha. I know someone who was in shul on Shabbos, and realized that since there was a simcha..things took longer than usual, and they tzibur would miss zman krias shma. So he went downstairs to daven beyechidus in order not to miss the zman. Someone saw him and berated him for missing the minyan. He told me after that the man didnt realize that its an obligation to make the zman, whereas though minyan is very very important, the halachah says “one should try” in regards to minyan…But for the most part, It comes from ignorance, not cruelty.
The point at which we differ is that you insist on dismissing what you perceive as misplaced “frumkeit”, because we have “bein adam lechaveiro” issue to worry about, which is much more important. My perspective is that these so-called frumkeiten are often worthy and important, and one has to know how and when to apply them.
Finally, to bring this back to the subject of tznius, Poshut Yid, I think the reason you have such a hard time believing that “Lakewood Ir Hakodesh ” has a tznius problem is because you dont realize that everyone has different standards. Even in the Satmar kehilla (where tznius is on a much higher standard than in Lakewood), has their ztnius shmuezzen when they see a breach. Just recently they addressed certain issues in a kol koreh. For the litvish lakewooder, those would not apply.
In lakewood, there has recently been a breach and that is what the rabbonim are addressing. If YOU see no problem with their Tznius, that just means you have lower standards. The bottom line is that we came down to this world to better ourselves and perfect ourselves. (And that means in all areas, not just ahavas Yisroel)So, even in YOUR community, if you were a Rav and you saw a downward turn in the area of tznius, your obligation would be to point it out.
You may want to ask yourself why you find it necessary to turn every conversation back to the same point: that we need to increase ahavas yisroel and therefor this particular issue is not important. None of us denies the importance of treating others with respect etc. But that is not the subject here.