Reply To: Giving women car rides

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brisker26
Participant

As in many other areas of tznius, there is a big difference between that which is assur, and that which depends on the sensitivities of people who are steeped in lives that embody tznius, and the concept of separation between genders.

Many people on this forum would approve of outright socialization with women; something that actually is assur – ‘ain shoalin beshalom ishah klal, afilu al yeday baalah’, is the gemara, rambam, tur and shulchan aruch. Many people from the previous generation grew up in houses where their parents met at mixed dances at Young Israel shuls; some of the people here, themselves, were involved with such things.

Under the banner of chesed, a lot of things end up being kashered. I often give hitches in boro park and flatbush(I actually travel along the bus route bedavka to find such people). I’ve been doing this for a very long time, and never have I been approached by a woman to be picked up – men have, on the other hand, put out their thumb when I slow down almost all the time.

The idea of indiscriminately being involved with the opposite gender, and an openness to such interaction, reflects an attitude towards tznius that is often shared by such individuals that refer to married women by their first name, spend time shmoozing with them, and are usually unaware of many other areas of halacha itself. While this is not assur, I do not believe any person raised or accustomed to the standards of tznius imparted to us from our gedolei yisroel would even consider approaching a strange woman.

Also, there is the issue of the woman’s safety(not the safety of being involved with strangers in general). A woman should not approach a car, no matter what – there’s no telling what sort of scum is lurking to harm her, clad in yeshivishe attire or otherwise. Women are simply more easily victimized than men are – although this is something that one of our posters probably does not accept, given her screename. She should take a survey of how many women would want to be in the army, or how many have learned martial arts – despite the feminist movement, a very, very small percentage of woman; almost negligible, consider themselves as physically strong as men.

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned this until now.

Yichud isn’t a problem, the same way it’s not a problem when bochurim go out on dates; that’s not the issue here. It’s less of a problem than saying gut shabbos to women(something my relatives who are not so frum do not understand), because here there is a purpose. However, I do not believe that the average frum woman would appreciate it if a man offered her a ride; likewise, none of my friends in kolel that I can think of(including myself) would take a ride from a woman who is alone.

Just for the contrast; a few weeks ago I received a ride when beckoned by my chavrusa’s mother; a lady in her high 60’s – even if her husband was not in the car(which he was), I would not have objected – certain matters of tznius are simply up to a subjective sensitivity, depending on time and place – in our time and place, most of us would not think of it as even a possibility – however, not everyone’s sensitivity is valid. What was proper in the 50’s doesn’t really matter, because basic halacha itself was scarcely kept at that time.

Tznius is not the sort of thing you want to find kulos in – it is the defining characteristic of klal yisroel; so much so that it was that zchus that saved us from atzas bilaam – the zohar says that there was never a threat as real as that of bilaam’s curse; what saved us was ‘ma tovu ohalacha yaakov’, that there was a great separation and privacy between families. If not for pinchos being the kanoi he was, we would not be alive now; the magaifah would have destroyed everybody.

There is a time and place for kanoius; and the torah tells us unmistakably that it is in the area of tznius and kedushah. There is no halacha that one who is involved in stealing from the governmen may be killed; this is a grave sin, but the ‘online’ people seem to think that their kanous should be placed on such people; we see however, that ‘daas torah is hepech daas baalei batim’; the sensitivities of the people in the ‘online’ world are completely out of wack – any action of rabonim to promote tznius is seen as corrupt, extreme, etc.., this is the world we live in, and this website is no exception.