Giving women car rides

Home Forums Chesed Giving women car rides

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  • #618031

    yitzman1
    Member

    Is it acceptable for a man to offer a car ride to a woman waiting for a city bus? Back in my yeshiva days,I was offered rides and have always been thankful, especially when the weather wasn’t nice. I’d like to pay it forward to any frum male/female, but thinking it’s not an acceptable thing for male to offer female and visa versa. Thoughts?

    #1171332

    Joseph
    Participant

    No.

    #1171333

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    BSD

    Frum, no it is not Frum. Joseph as usual will give the knee-jerk Chassid Shote response (Noshim are Assur!). Others will care what the Olam thinks, so they can show everyone how Frum (!) they are by leaving Noshim in the cold or rain.

    If there is Yichud, it is certainly assur (but then again you wouldn’t take someone out on a date L’toeles there either). See below for my suggestion regarding what to do.

    If it somewhere where you would interact with Noshim L’toeles, helping someone out is just as much L’toeles. There is no need to shmooze, and as a geder, you can have your Ema or spouse (if you have one) on the phone the entire trip (my Rov’s suggestion when this question came up).

    That being said, everyone should know themselves. If they think that they may be nichshal by helping this person, then lend them your car and you should walk home (or take the bus) in the rain and the cold. As the SA says, “Tzarich Adam L’hisrachech mehaNashim Meod Meod”.

    #1171334

    huju
    Participant

    What about the mitzvah of chesed? If it is raining or cold or blazing hot, or the woman is holding a cane or using a walker or otherwise appears frail, there might be an appropriate exception to the rigid rule.

    #1171335

    Gavra at work, I love your rav’s suggestion!

    #1171336

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It depends entirely on context. The need, number of passengers and such are all factors. In a situation where you would feel threatened if the other person was a total stranger from outside the community it is definitely no.

    #1171337

    Sparkly
    Member

    No. I wouldnt.

    #1171338

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If you’re in a car with your wife and you’re driving in a storm, and you see a woman on the side of the road shivering and trying to get a ride, maybe you should.

    #1171339

    Joseph
    Participant

    If you wife is in the car, yes. She should also be the one to offer it.

    #1171340

    miamilawyer
    Participant

    From what I remember, whether yichud applies to a car is not settled and some even make distinctions between heavily trafficked areas and not.

    And even if yichud does apply, there are those who hold that there is an exception for a place with a continuous video surveillance. Fortunately, except in the charedi world perhaps, most phones have that capability.

    In short, the answer to the question depends heavily on which LOR you ask.

    #1171341

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    I carpool about a minyan of women every day, Frogette gets on the first and leaves last. On the rare occasion she as a need to get off earlier, I have no problem continuing on with them, it’s broad daylight. They are of the more edele kind and more often opt to get off earlier.

    Personally, I would stop, in daytime hours, for any woman at need enough to request a ride of me. It does not happen that often at all, but has happened, especially older ones at a need to get somewhere quick.

    -my two aguros

    #1171342

    Sparkly
    Member

    reb yidd – then yes you should.

    #1171343

    I occasionally get a ride home from work with a frum male colleague (he and I work in totally different parts of the building). Usually his kids are in the backseat. I don’t see it as a problem and neither does he, or either of our spouses.

    #1171344

    apushatayid
    Participant

    My Rav told me once, this falls into the category of the 5th shulchan aruch. Seichel needs to be applied to the situation. If you dont have seichel……

    #1171345

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Half the people on this thread don’t care about chessed and the other half are looking to talk to other women.

    The obvious solution, and what I do, is to give them a ride, in the trunk.

    #1171346

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    continue.. If you don’t have seichel… then what??? (it’s nogea)

    #1171347

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    There is a known story involving R’ Chaim Ozer. He was learning with a group of talmidim when someone came and asked R’ Chaim Ozer “Ken ich nemen a gerushah? (Can I take a divorced woman?). He thought for a minute or 2 and then answered “Mir Ken”. The man left and the talmidim yelled “Er iz a Kohen”! R’ Chaim Ozer answered, he was not asking if he can marry her. Based on his clothes I can tell he is a wagon driver and since he is a Kohen wanted to know if was able to give a ride on his wagon since she is a gerushah. The talmidim went out and saw the man loading the woman’s packages onto his wagon.

    #1171348

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If you’re an official, licensed car service, you will end up driving people of both genders. Unless you discriminate, which is probably not allowed.

    #1171349

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    I would say it depends on who the women is. If it is a nice eidele looking women, dressed tzeniusdig or an elderly women , no harm done. If the women is dressed provocatively and would cause hirhurim for the man, then the answer would be no. Depends on the circumstance.

    #1171350

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “If you don’t have seichel… then what???”

    Perhaps you shouldnt be driving altogether, but if you do, ask your Rav what to do.

    #1171351

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I give my daughter’s friends rides home at night. I don’t want them walking alone late at night.

    The Wolf

    #1171352

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I also sometimes give rides to my wife and daughter.

    The Wolf

    #1171353

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    “If you don’t have seichel… then what???”

    Perhaps you shouldnt be driving altogether, but if you do, ask your Rav what to do.

    What if your rav doesn’t have seichel? I know you should pick a rav who has seichel, but if you don’t have seichel, maybe you’re not picking a rav with seichel and you don’t even realize it.

    #1171355

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I give my daughter’s friends rides home at night. I don’t want them walking alone late at night.

    I also sometimes give rides to my wife and daughter.

    I hope you at least have the decency to put them in the trunk.

    #1171356

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I hope you at least have the decency to put them in the trunk.

    Only if I’m feeling overly righteous that day.

    The Wolf

    #1171357

    Sparkly
    Member

    I think everyone should just drive and than no one will have that issue. when everyone is 16 they should get their license issue resolved and if someone needs a ride ask their gender.

    #1171358

    Joseph
    Participant
    #1171359

    miamilawyer
    Participant

    @joseph. Lol. They should then walk to the polls.

    Also, if they cannot get rides, and they cannot drive, how are they supposed to do anything while their husband is learning all day in kolel?

    #1171360

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    I wouldn’t give a stranger a lift at all. You don’t know what can happen, ch”v. Lots of crazy and dangerous people out there.

    #1171361

    BarryLS1
    Participant

    Joseph: You belong in Saudi Arabia. I bet if you saw a woman drowning, you wouldn’t save her because of negia.

    #1171362

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Women shouldn’t be driving.

    And, apparently, many rabbonim disagree with you, as their wives drive.

    The Wolf

    #1171363

    Joseph
    Participant

    I didn’t say l’chol hadeios.

    #1171364

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I didn’t say l’chol hadeios.

    You didn’t qualify it by saying “some say” either.

    The Wolf

    #1171365

    Joseph
    Participant

    Do you always qualify halachic opinions you share with a disclaimer “but other rabbis disagree”?

    (i.e. “Don’t use the eruv in Flatbush. But other rabbis disagree.”)

    #1171366

    Sparkly
    Member

    Joseph – so its better to get a ride by a guy and talk to him instead? I dot think so. So its 100% okay for women to drive.

    #1171367

    apushatayid
    Participant

    heter of the week. charge them a nominal fee (lets say a nickel) and now you are doing it for parnassah, since you are involved with your parnassah we are not concerned (same heter a male ob/gyn or even a car service driver has).

    be back next week with another heter.

    #1171368

    Typically when talking about eruvin, one should say “I don’t hold by such and such eruv” or “We [meaning your family] don’t hold by such and such eruv”. I would never say “such and such eruv is treif” if God-fearing Jews hold by it and it’s checked by a frum rav.

    #1171370

    Meno
    Participant

    “same heter a male ob/gyn or even a car service driver has”

    Is that the heter for a male OB/GYN?

    If he were doing it for free it would be assur?

    #1171371

    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: A woman is struggling in the water. Would you help her?

    #1171372

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, the answer could easily be yes, save her life (of course) but not necessarily give her a ride for her convenience.

    #1171373

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Sam, the answer could easily be yes, save her life (of course) but not necessarily give her a ride for her convenience.

    Once again, if you are so worried, hand over the keys and walk home.

    #1171374

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “my ob gyn will be a female.”

    You are free to choose whoever you feel will offer you the best treatment for whatever situation you may find yourself in, whether it is the ob/gyn, the internist or the podiatrist. You should never need these professionals for anything other than routine care.

    “Is that the heter for a male OB/GYN?”

    If a female ob/gyn needs this heter to treat a male patient, I think she should call a shrink, not a rav.

    #1171375

    Sparkly
    Member

    sam2 – its true what daas yachid is saying you shouldnt give rides to girls and girls should be able to drive themselves. its much different than saving a life.

    #1171376

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ???? ??????

    #1171377

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Like most issues in the Coffee Room, the answers have nothing to do with the original question. What does an eiruv have to do with giving a woman a ride in your car? What does a woman drowning have to do with it?

    #1171378

    Sparkly
    Member

    iacisrmma – follow the discussion.

    #1171379

    MDG
    Participant

    “What does an eiruv have to do with giving a woman a ride in your car?”

    Both are high-strung subjects.

    #1171380

    Sam2
    Participant

    Sparkly: And why shouldn’t you give a woman a ride? No one’s saying to have a conversation or have any interaction with them. Why can’t a man do a very useful favor for a woman?

    #1171381

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    MDG, 🙂

    Sam, that’s a separate question, but don’t confuse it with someone drowning.

    #1171382

    Sparkly
    Member

    sam2 – she had to talk to you to get into the car.

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