To Joseph – So far, I have agreed with just about every shtark “shita” of yours I have seen on various posts…and I am impressed with just about all of them. But I do have to contend with 1 point in your first postings here…you imply that ALL torah she’beal peh is assur for women. From what I have seen, and/or heard from gedolim, they don’t specify that any learning is assur for women except for being very shtark that GEMORA is not accepted. I would be curious to see if you found that Rav Moshe or anyone like that insisted that mishnayos (when it’s nogeiah or if necessary to help/teach a son), or other torah she’beal peh is truly assur or even extremely wrong. If you do find it for me (as I am not a “bukie” b’shas v’poskim) I will stand corrected.
To the thread as a whole –
As per the original post, I am a kollel wife who is a “chavrusa” type – in mussar and halacha (the latter is to my husband’s credit, as I wasn’t as “into” it before we got married – I was mostly into mussar). Personally, I think that it really depends on both sides of the couple whether they want (or should want) a chavrusa or not. Clearly this girl was not for the OP. My husband was told by his (REAL) chavrusa, who ironically ended up being our shadchan, NOT to marry a chavrusa….and he DID…and he is very happy he did, because he is that “type”. That being said, I will admit to other women who are unmarried, and men who ARE looking for “chavrusa”s, that the chavrusa-type of women should get training b4 marriage in house stuff (cooking, cleaning, etc) and get used to it, because as a mother, it’s taken 8 years for me to get to this point of “managing” (WITH hubby’s help b”H) with housework – and when you don’t learn before marriage to get “sipuk” from anything besides seforim and the like, you will not be able to run a home well. To the guys – now that I mentioned the down side, the plus side of the “chavrusa” type is that they are women with more logic (“stira”? :p) and will be more analytical in life and able to come up solutions for a torah home more easily even when you are not around to advise her – and how to deal with ruchniyus issues as the kids get older even when ur away at yeshiva or work etc etc….. and she could always learn before marriage if she does chesed enough in pples houses how to “autopilot” in house tasks (or maybe she learned at home, even better)…
I am not sure how clear this is but I don’t have tome at the moment to write this out more thoroughly – I hope you get the drift and I am not misunderstood. Both are great “types” and both have their pluses and minuses and all have their basheret.
As far as the “hock” back and forth here – Rav Moshe, who IS the decisor posek, for sure for most of America, has a teshuva where he is very clear that women should not be learning Gemora.
Whether it is officially “assur” or not, personally I believe to be a mute point, since anyone looking to grow in avodas Hashem and do His ratzon (will), has so many other avenues for growth, learning and even “hasmoda”, that I can’t understand why anyone would choose to “davka” use that avenue, unless they are looking to prove a feministic agenda. That being said, I do not think most of the gedolim hold it is assur or wrong for a husband to quote what he learned in a given gemora (assuming they are not “learning gemora in depth” together), or for a women to be shown a quote from a gemora in order to prove something she NEEDS to know for her avodas Hashem.
I believe learning for what she NEEDS for her avodas Hashem, includes all or most sifrei mussar, kitzur halacha, english halacha, and even mishna berura (w/ shulchan aruch), if it will help her to be clearer on halachos that are nogeiah for her. This is how the frummest seminaries are madrich and “maskim” for their girls to learn, and regardless of the sources and differences of opinions in shas, it seems to be how the gedolim paskin for girls & women today.
That being said, I’m not sure why this whole “hock” needs to be “argued” or causing machlokes, as each person should have a rav who they can ask what and how to learn and whether they should continue a shidduch when they see potential red flags…instead of taking advice from the “hamon am” and causing possible machlokes on these threads…