Regarding Joseph’s position, I don’t agree with his position and I do agree with yours. What I was arguing against was your argument against his position which I thought may have flaws.
Tachlis, the real issue here is what the Gemara does and doesn’t mean. And for that, someone needs to find a reliable source that explains it. I’m not sure where one would find it. But I think that is really the only good argument possible here (or it certainly would be the best one).