“@chabadshlucha, I agree with most of want you’re saying besides one thing. “Moshiach Shebador” isn’t a halachic concept, it’s not based on the Rambam, so it’s not the greatest point to bring in an argument.”
Correct me if I’m wondering but I don’t recall saying it is from Rambam, I said the other two are. It comes up allot in chassidus and I’ve read stories of the Baal Shem tov to that effect as well, so it is not a recent concept.
Also I’m not arguing. I think the Litvishe world has the right to understand what we are thinking and where we disagree so I’m educating, not arguing. I feel there is a real interest for the most part as you can judge for yourself by the feedback.
“Secondly, nowhere does it says that the משה שבדור is משיח שבדור.”
Please look up the phrase “Nassi Hador hu haMoshiach shebador.” Nassi Hador is another way of saying Moshe Rabbeinu of the generation, just shorter:). If you still can’t find it, I’ll Google it myself and tell you an exact source, although as a fellow Lubavitcher I’d be surprised if you haven’t come across it yet.
“Saying it will not help you prove you point. I don’t understand why you are seemingly trying to validate or legitimise beliefs that are based on emotion, not intellect through logic.”
Certainly everything we do as Yidden is it most certainly should be sourced in emuna which is an emotion. However, especially especially as Chabad chassidim, we endeavor to bring this emuna down into the rational would so our mind can agree with it as well. And this is very very important. If you believe you are a butterfly, people will think you are crazy because that is not their experience. Some extreme people may even label you an apikoris:) but if you can prove how you are, you won’t seem silly anymore.
I’m just giving over what I’ve taught and seen for myself. I think the world has the right to know it especially as there some people running around looking crazy because they don’t bother explaining how they got there. To the uninitiated eye btw, all Jews can look crazy too. So it’s not about how why look it’s about why. You’re welcome to disagree with me and explain how you draw a different conclusion. But I think it is high time that all lubavitchers as all Jews, should stick together, because people don’t differentiate, and if you label meshichistim crazy to the oilam you come in contact with, they’ll in turn ok at you as bring crazy for being a lubavitcher. So pirud doesn’t help anyone, achdus helps everyone. That’s what I believe and that’s why I’m here. And I know this is a Torah value, not just my belief.
If I were trying to defend or explain it, I would simply say, that Chassidim believe that their Rebbe was the most worthy of being Moshiach, were he to come in his time. Such belief is no novelty, it’s seen in the Gemara, and in past generations there were other Chassidim who believed this about their Rebbe, (such as Vizhnitz).
This is true. Another point to bring in eventually. But you do yo see we are a bit different, no one else goes to the lengths we do and are as passionate about it. So I though I’ll just give the inside scoop.
To conclude, never ever, not even once did the rebber ever declare or otherwise insinuate that he was Moshiach. ( Once, Rabbi L Groner, a secretary of the Rebbe handed the Rebbe a letter which had been received and was addressed to “Moshiach”, the Rebbe said “I’ll give it to him when he comes”.
I haven’t addressed that yet.
That said, if someone chooses to believe that the Rebbe or any Rebbe is Moshiach, that doesn’t make him a Kofer or anything. It may be foolish to believe so after his passing, but definitely isn’t assur in any way, shape or form.
See above as to why I think this attitude ruins things for everyone.