Reply To: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us!

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username123321
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Why is it not akin to apikorsus to claim something that is against FACT and then to base a belief system upon it? Where are all the charomim against them?

Is it Kefira to think nonsense? If I believe Moshiach will sit on my chair before his Hisgalus, what Ikkar am I violating as long as I believe that he’ll be a living male, descendant of Beis Dovid etc. It’s not similar to the “Nebach an Apikores” since the typical “Nebach an Apikores” believes in Kefira, but believes it with a Temimus. So if someone would learn the Gemara and somehow becomes absolutely convinced that Moshiach will be a horse, he would be a Koifer Betmimus. But on the other hand, let’s say someone believes that Bar Kochva’s Moshiach. But before before Bar Kochva soured and was killed, he had to go on a trip to China and lived there for 10 years. In the meanwhile Bar Kochva was killed. Would he be a Nebach an Apikores? He believes in all the Ikkarim. He just made a mistake Bemetziyus. He thought Bar Kochva’s alive but he’s really not.

While Meshichistim aren’t making a mistake. They’re in denial, and using crooked logic to justify denial. But would that be Kefira?

By the way, as I was looking some stuff up, I cam across Moshiachtalk from Rabbi Gil Student (who made the website about 20 years ago to prove that the Lubavitcher Rebbe can’t be Moshiach). He has a Teshuvah from Rabbi Feldman from NIRC, that while Meshichistim are WONG WRONG WRONG WRONG and messed up in the head, they are not Kofrim, are Bichlal Amisecha, you’re allowed to daven in their shuls (but you have to leave or make a protest when they say Yechi), and are kosher Shochtim (!). The only thing is that since they’re so messed up in the head[1], they’re not qualified to be a Rov, and should not be supported in any way so that their false Hashkafa doesn’t spread [2].

And he has a letter from Rabbi Leff where he said “On the other hand, to daven in a shul where the majority have crooked ideas about Yiddishkeit and recite things that have no place as part of the davening, better not to daven in a shul like that. ”

Not that it’s Kefira[3]. Just that it’s very very very wrong and crooked.

So this seems to be this is the attitude that most official Shluchim take (except I don’t know how many of them would Daven in Shuls of Meshichistim, even if those Shuls would be the only ones in the neighborhood). They oppose Meshichistim. They condemn meshichistim. And yes, even in private. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if they rant against Meshichistim more in private than in public. I have quite a few friends who learned in Detroit. If I’d even get close to mentioning something about Yechi, I’d get a tongue lashing. And this is true, by the way, when they’re drunk. They try to shut down their institutions. They’re in a court case trying to get back the main shul in 770. And while it may have been true right after nun daled that Antis were just quiet Meshichisten (I wasn’t around then, so I don’t know the underground politics back then), it was definitely over within a decade. I think it’s part of the Meshichist propaganda to say that all Antis are secret Meshichistim, they same way they turned around and made Reb Aharon Soloveichik[4] into a hidden meshichist.

[1]. He says that Meshichistim are insane for a different reason. He said that believing that a person who passed away isn’t exactly Kefira, it’s insane to think that of all the Rabbis over the thousands of years, it will be the Rebbe. The thing is, that most of them deny that the Rebbe ever passed away to begin with, so that reason of insanity doesn’t apply. But there definitely are other reasons why they are insane, as mentioned above.

[2]. I suspect some Meshichist is going to jump out (like they did when Rabbi Aharon Soloveitchik from Chicago wrote his letter) and say “You see!! He’s fine with Meshichistim!!” He’s not. He opposed them and thought that they’re wrong. The only thing that he said was literally “it cannot be dismissed as outside the pale of orthodoxy”. That’s absolutely not an endorsement. Typical lack of reading comprehension from their part.

[3]. I strongly suspect that Rabbi Gil Student cherry-picked the responsa that he published to be palatable to Lubavitch, and that’s why he didn’t publish letters from Rav Shach and others, for example, because my suspicion was that the point of this website was to convince Lubavitcher Meshichistim to drop it (which is why he has also has letters and Kol Korehs from Lubavitcher Antis from back then). But either way, I don’t think that Rabbi Feldman would write an Halachically untrue letter to sound palatable to us.

[4]. It’s another interesting thing, as I’m not even sure how respected was he in the right-wing Yeshivish world. I don’t think that he was seen as his brother (the Rosh Yeshiva of YU), but I don’t think he was seen as his cousins (the current Brisker Rabbonim in Yerushalayim). Could be that since he lived OOT, he was just not so well known. I honestly don’t know.