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Rso (and neville):
“Sorry, but I don’t know what you’re talking about. My argument is and was that for a group that lacks in tznius compared to all other chareidi groups to lecture us on chassidus is unacceptable.
You wrote that you can’t just judge the tznius level of a community by the way they dress, which would allow you to say that my argument is wrong, and I countered by saying that you can indeed judge a tznius level. Therefore, lubavich’s lack of tznius shows something rotten at its core.
No change of argument at all.”
Ok you’re not leaving me with much of a choice I’ll elaborate for you. Tznius and yiras shomayim are things that are all around and permeate every aspect of our lives, including dress but not more than everything else, as we see from Kimchis as explained and also shaul hamelech.
Shaul hamelech is termed a tzanua by chazal not because he wore pants and not shorts. It’s because when he needed to relieve himself he used a cave inside a cave even though he was alone in the desert. Because he was so aware of Hashem’s Presence.
So that being the case, I can definitely say that you are wrong to compare the two by dress. Of course dressing tznius counts as dressing tznius and is a mitzva even if you are no yirei shomayim, but to compare the yiras shomayim and kedusha based on dress in two communities which work completely differently is silly or should I say not a fair comparison.
Now I have avoided it till now but I can give you two true examples (without names etc) one of a male and one of a female in chassidish communities who were much worse off in yiras shomayim than the in between Lubavitchers you complain about whos tznius levels aren’t up to par. (And I will still argue with you that its not a problem by the chassidish, just the in between and modern). And they dress the part. So yeah they get the credit for the dress but if they’re questionably frum then you can’t use them for your yiras shomayim comparisons.
But I’m not really interested in bringing them and if you can understand my point without that would be much better.
Unfortunately
we also have our own bad stories. The difference is that our bad stories are about people who don’t pretend to be tznius in any shape or form and are clearly questionably frum in dress and behaviour (im not talking about our in between lubavitchers at all cvs). Whereas with yours they take great pains to dress and act the part so you would take them as a fine example to measure up in numbers where lubavitch is leaving in overall tznius and kedusha when really that’s the furthest from the truth. You understand now?