“For example, Rabbi Emmanuel Schochet pulled a prank with some other bochurim in Yeshiva where they switched around the books in the library and piled up the furniture.”
Right, that’s completely similar to Saying the Rebbe’s Hashem.
“As far as putting Himself in the Rebbe you’re misunderstanding. The point is we ALL have Atzmus umehus inside of us. As the Alter Rebbe says in Tanya perek beis that our neshama is a chelek Eloka mimaal mamash. And the essence of our neshama is one with Hashem.”
And in other places he says Kaviyachol. This is not meant to be taken literally, and is kefira if it is. We do not have GOD in us, we have GODLINESS. Big difference – and is the difference between yiddishkeit and kefira. A mistake in this is a mistake in yichud Hashem!!!! While the Raavad is dan lekaf zechus those who err, the Rambam does not… CS, be very very very careful.
“Funny you say that because there definitely is place to say that in either case. Sdei chemed and Abarbanel say the preferable option is from the dead. Rashi and medrash say moshiach will be revealed and then concealed before he is finally revealed. We were discussing SPECIFICALLY the Rambam which i doubt you have studied much in depth yourself if you write so dismissively.”
Nowhere does it say it’s the preferable option. Abarbanel keeps it as a possibility. BTW, most rishonim hold Moshaich cannot come from the dead, based on their arguments with Christians. (Many chabadniks will answer that was only to win the argument, but really they held otherwise. This is disingenuous, dishonest, and dumb.) Rashi says that if Moshiach comes from the dead he will be Daniel (not someone like Daniel, but Daniel.) Either way, if Mashiach comes from the dead, do you really think that of all the dead people in all of yiddishkeit, the Rebbe is the greatest of them all???? (Not just Nosi Hador, which I can buy, unlike Rso, but Nosi Kol Hadorois?????) I would think Dovid Hamelech, R Akiva, R Shimon Bar Yochai, Chizkiyahu (who almost made it) etc etc, not the Rebbe.
(BTW, the common answer is that it has to be someone from this dor, even if he comes from the dead, but 1- there’s no source for that anywhere, in fact by the Gemara of Daniel it seems the opposite, and 2-in another few years the Rebbe’s Dor will have passed lekol hadayois. Do you think for a second that any meshichist will give up their belief in the Rebbe? not in amillion years they won’t.)
Furthermore, The Rebbe clearly says that MOSHIACH CANNOT COME FROM THE DEAD (I brought the source earlier). Thus, the “still alive” crazies are at least more intellectually honest than the min hameisim’s. Furthermore, the Rebbe said numerous times “THE HALACHOS OF MOSHIACH ARE LIKE THE RAMBAM” So if it doesn’t fit the Rambam, than according to Chabad it’s wrong!!!!
Anyways, CS, don’t you see how intellectually dishonest this is? Normal Halacha is to learn the Rambam and to see what he says and understand it based on the sugyois. What you and other meshichists are doing is deciding out of nowhere that the Rebbe is Mashiach (the Rebbe never once said it, and accepting a tambourine from an obviously nutso woman does not constitute proof), and then twisting the Rambam to make your preconcieved conclusions fit! This is not Orthodox Judaism’s Halachic system, it is Reform’s! And twisting Gemaras, psukim, and rishonim to make a certain person Mashiach is not even Reform, it’s Christianity!
This is not disrepsect, it is an accurate depiction of the facts. The earliest christians were also shomrei torah Umitzvois. If I made fun of their proofs back then would it also be “disrespectful”?
The only difference between them is that The Rebbe was a Talmud Chacham, and J was a Rasha. But in regards to the early talmidim’s beliefs, it is exactly the same. Chabad is at a Crossroads – either stop with the Mashiach nonsense, or write yourself out of Klal yisrael!
And don’t show me R Ahron Soloveitchik’s letter that believing the Rebbe’s Mashiach is not kefira First of all not kefira doesn’t mean it’s correct or acceptable. Eating pork letayavon is also not kefira. Furthermore, I also think it isn’t kefira – at least not yet. But experience has shown that blindly believing in a dead person’s messiahship, and ignoring all indications to the contrary eventually leads to either kefira (Christianity) or mass disillusionment (Shabsai Tzvi.)
CS, while you are certainly a shomer torah umitzvois, and I would eat at your house unquestionably. But you have to realize that ignoring Hashem and focusing on the Rebbe will never lead to anything good. Just because you claim that you know the difference between the Rebbe and Hashem doesn’t mean your future decendants will. Neither will many Baal Teshuvas and less-learned people. There are sign of this happening in Chabad already, I posted them many times in this thread. Chabad is one of the best organizations in the Torah world, and does tremendous good work. This Moshiach thing is threatening to destroy it all, and with it the Rebbe’s reputation.
I suspect Sechel Hayashar would agree with me.
CS, I’m sorry if this was too harsh – I mean nothing personal at all, butsomething needs to be said to wake Chabad from this mishagas. And if I succeed in saving even one meshichist by writing this post, It was worse all this time. “Kol Hamatzel Nefesh Meyisrael”