“Had ימ”ש been ח”ו a Cohen.
And if he did תשובה and your hypothetical that he never actually killed anyone, would you say he cannot דוכן ?”
It would be in beis din’s right to prevent him.
See the Tashbetz I cited at the beginning of our discussion, that beis din can make rules as they see fit.
“But from a strictly single issue point, would ב”ד be able to punish him for the acts of killing which his orders caused?”
first of all yes as mentioned.
Secondly we arent talkign baotu beis din per se.
Lets go back to the beginning of our conversation.
It started with this quote of yours
“Most people I have asked this to seem to lean more to the western feelings on this topic and have a rough time accepting that the Torah doesn’t view it that way”
Your position was (is?) since the torah doesnt give it a severe punishment it isnt so bad.
You seem to have come around somewhat “In דיני שמים unquestionably he is rotting permanently.”
Even though based on punishment is act isnt so bad. Something tells you that although technicly he may be able to get off in a beis din. his crime his still terrible, if not actual murder “it’s just one step below murder.”
I dont know if you have a source that tells you this, my point is you dont need one. We all have a G-d given sense of morality. Why isnt there an onesh beis din for incitining mass murder? good question, and it needs a teiritz, (I’m sure you are aware of the whole sugya divrei harav etc) . but the fact that there is no onesh doesnt mean it is a low crime.
If a person murders with no witnesses it isnt a lowly crime.
If a ben sorer umorer’s parents don’t have the exact same voice his crime isnt mitigated. (or is it?)
The Torah gives dinim how beis din and society functions. and delinates this person gets an onesh and based on techinicalitys that person doesnt.
Lets look at motive for a moment. Beis din is not equiped to take motive into account. surely you agree the poor person who stole to feed his family did a “lower averia” than the rich person who stoel to spite the poor man.
Do I need a raaya that the rich man is worse? True I have one from Dovid Hamelech, but how did HE know, was this some sort of nevuah?
Granted beis din treats them the same, but that doesnt mean their act was the same.
We can take this further. whats a worse aveira, working on shabbos to feed family that is starving (not to death) or eating neveila lehachis. OF course beis din’s punishment for shabbos is far worse. but I’m pretty sure in olam haemes the mumar lehachis is far worse. Practicly this doesnt matter I cant think of a nafka mina, but the atttude changes
you asked ““Rare or חילול שבת” Which?”
And I gave an (excellent?) answer saying better to do chilul shabbos in that case. Clearly my answer was driven to prevent the woman from getting rape. Even if you on’t liek the specific answer, Imagine a posek trying to come up with a way to “protect” the woman. Is that a bad thing? Is that a sign of favoring western values over the Torah